Polygamous wive's conversion stories

[Vlad the Emailer]

What are your thoughts on the conversion experiences of polygamous wives like Lucy Walker?

I had been speechless, but at last found utterance and said: “Although you are a prophet of God you could not induce me to take a step of so great importance, unless I knew that God approved my course. I would rather die. I have tried to pray but received no comfort, no light,” and emphatically forbid him (Joseph Smith) speaking again to me on this subject. Every feeling of my soul revolted against it. Said I, “The same God who has sent this message is the Being I have worshipped from my early childhood and He must manifest His will to me.” He walked across the room, returned and stood before me with the most beautiful expression of countenance, and said: “God Almighty bless you. You shall have a manifestation of the will of God concerning you; a testimony that you can never deny. I will tell you what it shall be. It shall be that joy and peace that you never knew.”

Oh, how earnestly I prayed for these words to be fulfilled. It was near dawn after another sleepless night when my room was lighted up by a heavenly influence. To me it was, in comparison, like the brilliant sun bursting through the darkest cloud. The words of the Prophet were indeed fulfilled. My soul was filled with a calm, sweet peace that “I never knew.” Supreme happiness took possession of me, and I received a powerful and irresistible testimony of the truth of plural marriage, which has been like an anchor to the soul through all the trials of life. I felt that I must go out into the morning air and give vent to the joy and gratitude that filled my soul. As I descended the stairs, President Smith opened the door below, took me by the hand and said: “Thank God, you have the testimony. I too have prayed.” He led me to a chair, placed his hands upon my head, and blessed me with every blessing my heart could possibly desire.

The first day of May, 1843, I consented to become the Prophet’s wife, and was sealed to him for time and all eternity, at his own house by Elder William Clayton.

I find these testimonies much more compelling than any of the BoM witnesses. If I were to do like TBM DW would like and just believe anyway, testimonies like this are likely what I would grasp onto.

[Palerider]

I think many of these women were psychologically "worked upon" by their circumstances and by Smith as well. Here they are in the midst of a people who for all intents and purposes worship at the feet of Smith and consider him second only to Christ, if that. From her description it nearly sounds as if she is cloistered in a room to which Smith has the only access and she is going through a highly intense mental struggle trying to find a way to reconcile her initial and correct feelings with a repulsive proposition being foisted upon her. Huge stress factors involved here.

No surprise that people who are in such circumstances come to the conclusions that they do. So it is with young people who have been molested, kidnapped, etc. that become the defenders of their perpetrators.

I think the common term is called Stockholm Syndrome.

[alas]

It is kind of opposite for me. This was so unbelievable to me that I looked at it as a con and went on to see the BoM promise as a con. It was the women's convincing themselves against their own conscience that explained to me how the BoM promise works. It is the exact same principle. Joseph is a charismatic guy, and first he tells people if they pray about his one true church with real intent that God will manifest the truth of it unto them. If they don't get the answer they were told they would get, they blame themselves and keep trying. They WANT to believe it, so after praying, they get this warm fuzzy feeling---just like they were told they would. They want to believe that the fact that charming guy has charmed them is because they are smart enough to know a con, so the fact that the guy has charmed them is because they are smart, not because they are stupid and gullible. They establish a trust in charmer, and rather than seeing it as the manipulation it is, they LIKE the guy therefore he can't be a con artist. They trust their emotions.

I saw a TV show about a con artist, Ponzi scheme operator When people showed doubt about the stock or Brooklyn Bridge he was trying to sell them, he told them to go home and think it over, and he was positive that they would see how this was the deal of a life time. So, they go home and think it over and go back in the morning positive that it was the deal of a lifetime. Hmmmm, I am thinking to myself, was the script writer a former Mormon or is this tactic that common among con artists? but con artist use it because it works, just like offering food or beverage is part of gaining trust, getting them to say yes to things before asking them to buy (missionary commitment pattern or sales tactic), telling them what they are going to feel works for a big percentage of the population. All part of the psychology of the con.

[20/20hind]

Religion is one of the best ways to manipulate people. joseph used his position and religion to totally exploit her.

Here are some catholic encounters with divine guidance

http://testimoniesofotherfaiths.blogspo ... s.html?m=1

as a church leader if you can convince the follower that god also wants and approves what the leader wants. You are pretty much in control of the followers.

Honestly is pretty damn scary. Now the church just has kids sing follow the prophet. And indoctrinates them that they should follow because they know the way.

[deacon blues]

I'm probably too skeptical, but it reminded me of a group of elders who had a kiss-the-mission-president's-butt contest at a zone conferences. They got quite creative with their testimonies.

[Rob4Hope]

I'm probably too skeptical, but it reminded me of a group of elders who had a kiss-the-mission-president's-butt contest at a zone conferences. They got quite creative with their testimonies.

Don't stop there....this sounds like an interesting story. Go on please....

[Vlad the Emailer]

I'm probably too skeptical, but it reminded me of a group of elders who had a kiss-the-mission-president's-butt contest at a zone conferences. They got quite creative with their testimonies.

Don't stop there....this sounds like an interesting story. Go on please....

Yes it does, and I'll second the motion. Please elaborate.

Actually, reminds me of how my mission president was so revered by missionaries that "president" (not the president, just president) was larger than life. And his wife may as well have been our mother in heaven, she was on such a high pedestal as well. Which all reminds me of Henry Jacobs referring to JS as "our God" in a letter to his stolen wife Zina.

Anyway, lot's of great comments here, thanks.

The detail of this bit of "personal revelation" is what impressed me (if impressed is the right word), but generally I have often considered polygamy testimonies to be a Stockholm Syndrome type phenomenon, as Palerider mentioned. If it is the world you live in, is all around you, and is all you know, not exactly surprising that you would gain a "testimony" of it.

And scary too, as 20/20hind said. Like the nutcase Michael Ryan that decided he was God's true messenger and had his few followers so messed up he murdered a 5 year old child of a follower as part of a loyalty test. He also had his son torture another follower to death. The son claims that he was so sure dad spoke for God that it took years of bible bashing, so to speak, with a fellow inmate in prison before he could finally admit that maybe dad was just full of s*it. That "prophet" practiced polygamy/polyandry as well, BTW. Another less than surprising development. If I'm God's chosen I should get to do what, and who, I want. If you don't believe it, just ask me.

[Rob4Hope]

I'm probably too skeptical, but it reminded me of a group of elders who had a kiss-the-mission-president's-butt contest at a zone conferences. They got quite creative with their testimonies.

Don't stop there....this sounds like an interesting story. Go on please....

Yes it does, and I'll second the motion. Please elaborate.

Actually, reminds me of how my mission president was so revered by missionaries that "president" (not the president, just president) was larger than life. And his wife may as well have been our mother in heaven, she was on such a high pedestal as well. Which all reminds me of Henry Jacobs referring to JS as "our God" in a letter to his stolen wife Zina.

Anyway, lot's of great comments here, thanks.

The detail of this bit of "personal revelation" is what impressed me (if impressed is the right word), but generally I have often considered polygamy testimonies to be a Stockholm Syndrome type phenomenon, as Palerider mentioned. If it is the world you live in, is all around you, and is all you know, not exactly surprising that you would gain a "testimony" of it.

And scary too, as 20/20hind said. Like the nutcase Michael Ryan that decided he was God's true messenger and had his few followers so messed up he murdered a 5 year old child of a follower as part of a loyalty test. He also had his son torture another follower to death. The son claims that he was so sure dad spoke for God that it took years of bible bashing, so to speak, with a fellow inmate in prison before he could finally admit that maybe dad was just full of s*it. That "prophet" practiced polygamy/polyandry as well, BTW. Another less than surprising development. If I'm God's chosen I should get to do what, and who, I want. If you don't believe it, just ask me.

Moment of "WOW!" came as I read this Vlad.....because I often step back mentally and think: "How did I believe this for so long?!" I mean, as a TBM I claimed to know more about JC than most, because I was in the "only true church". And I claimed that JS was a prophet because I had heard and read the [correlated] stories my whole life. And now I encounter "real history"--not white washed, but the real deal, and I am perplexed by my willful ignorance....for my whole life to that point. What mind opening experience!

In order to be a TBM, you have to be, IMHO, one of the following: 1) ignorant because you really haven't seen real history; 2) willfully ignorant, because you have seen the real history, but choose to ignore the injunction of being honest, and yet grant absolution to JS who was NOT honest.

Either way, the common denominator is ignorance.

I keep coming back to this: why would God set up an organization that promotes and enforces faith at the exclusion of knowledge and learning?

If there is a God who does that, I can't believe in Him--his approach offends my soul--and it also contradicts since "The Glory of God is intelligence"....Oh really?

[Grace2Daisy]

It is an interesting question, and I've often wondered why women would agree to Joseph's advances, and keep things hidden from Emma at the same time, in many cases. from their husbands. I think some of it has to do with a powerful, charismatic leader.

Sigmund Freud was the first person to provide some explanation of how a follower’s unconscious motivations work.

After practicing psychoanalysis for a number of years, Freud was puzzled to find that his patients—who were, in a sense, his followers—kept falling in love with him. Although most of his patients were women, the same thing happened with his male patients. It is a great tribute to Freud that he realized that his patients’ idealization of him couldn’t be traced to his own personal qualities. Instead, he concluded, people were relating to him as if he were some important person from their past—usually a parent.

Can someone unknowingly force themselves into believing a spiritual internal voice has confirmed their inner desires? I believe so. Can they internally create heavenly manifestations to confirm what they want? Possibly.

After all it was Jimmy Dugan in A League of Their Own who said, "Lord, I'd just like to thank You for that waitress in South Bend. You know who she is - she kept calling Your name."