Updated mormon and gay website- pitiful!

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tearjerker
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Updated mormon and gay website- pitiful!

Post by tearjerker » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:36 pm

New: https://mormonandgay.lds.org/about
http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/4 ... fullpage=1

My son has been married to his partner for over 3 years now (together over 10), and walked away from the church as a teen. They are doing great!

But this new site does not seem to make it any easier for someone that identifies as gay. The guilt is still laid on heavy to “follow the plan”! Even the small section on depression and suicide ends with a section from Holland, seemingly comparing the individual to a “broken vessel”.

There is no mention of the November “policy/revelation”, and there are quotes from Handbook 2:

“The Lord’s law of chastity is abstinence from sexual relations outside of lawful marriage and fidelity within marriage. Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Adultery, fornication, homosexual or lesbian relations, and every other unholy, unnatural, or impure practice are sinful”

There are a series of quotes in the Tribune’s coverage, including Ty Mansfield, that give the sight praise, even Jim Debakis “D-Salt Lake City and an openly gay member of the Utah Legislature. "The trajectory seems to be going in the right direction."

I’m sorry, pointing in the right direction is not good enough. Baby steps will not save lives. There is an admonition to parents to “love their children”, but there is too much history. Too much has been said in the past to be able to “make it better”. If this is the best the church will do, I expect another wave of resignations to follow.

My concern is that there may also be another rash of suicides that could follow this new website, that shows no real steps forward.

ulmite
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Re: Updated mormon and gay website- pitiful!

Post by ulmite » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:17 pm

The "Stories" section seems to boil down to : "I found out I was gay. I was miserable. I wanted to kill myself. The Church did NOT help. I prayed a lot and felt that God loves me. I'm still miserable but less so. The end." Sounds fun!

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moksha
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Re: Updated mormon and gay website- pitiful!

Post by moksha » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:02 pm

It's like when you take this face :evil: and with a pen and eraser change it into this face :twisted:

Putting a smile on it was very clever PR move. If it helps ease the pain and suffering of gay youth and their families in LDS society, then it was a good idea.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Mayan Elephant
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Re: Updated mormon and gay website- pitiful!

Post by Mayan Elephant » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:31 am

moksha wrote:It's like when you take this face :evil: and with a pen and eraser change it into this face :twisted:

Putting a smile on it was very clever PR move. If it helps ease the pain and suffering of gay youth and their families in LDS society, then it was a good idea.

I disagree. It's the same old sham.

This will ease no pain and it will not reduce suffering. This campaign is awful and harmful.

The message is clear - gays living with their shame and not being gay are welcome here. It's the same message with the words slightly rearranged, at best.

This kind of shaming heaps pressure on families and individuals. It's deadly. Fatal. Depressing and ignorant. It takes pray away the gay to a whole 'nother more fatal and entrenched Mormon philosophy, which is, 'obedient away the gay.'

I am not advocating nihilism for the models featured on that site, nor am I judging their paths. I hardly believe a word of the PR stunts from the COB but I can't judge those people specifically.

The key to helping youth and families is to allow them to achieve their own happiness and their own dignity. This is a PR stunt for the corporation of the President and not a healthy message to youth and families. It puts the corporation's model above the dignity of children and families. And that is wrong. There is no message of empathy beyond the thumbs up like-vote for the few that can suffer the self-loathing needed to bury their dignity and authenticity for the tribe and the corporation.

I don't call that a brush-stroked happy face on an emotioncon. I call that purposeful and neglectful harm. It's not an iron fist in a velvet glove. It is a loaded gun to the head and heart.

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Not Buying It
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Re: Updated mormon and gay website- pitiful!

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:45 am

Wow, Mayan Elephant - well said! Your comments have my hearty endorsement.

I would like to point out that the website is somewhat dishonest in its response in the FAQ answer to the question "Will the Church Ever Change Its Doctrine and Sanction Same-Sex Marriages?" https://mormonandgay.lds.org/articles/f ... -questions :
Central to God’s plan, the doctrine of marriage between a man and woman is an integral teaching of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and will not change:

“As a doctrinal principle, based on the scriptures, the Church affirms that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

“Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Any other sexual relations, including those between persons of the same gender, are sinful and undermine the divinely created institution of the family. The Church accordingly affirms defining marriage as the legal and lawful union between a man and a woman” (Handbook 2: Administering the Church)
What about polygamy? The Church didn't always define marriage as being between "a" man and "a" woman, the statement would lead an uninformed reader to think that heterosexual monogamy has always been the Church's definition of marriage. But it hasn't been, has it? So if the definition can change to exclude polygamy, why can't it change to include same-sex marriages? The Church ought not be talking about its definition of marriage as though it has never and could never change.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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wtfluff
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Re: Updated mormon and gay website- pitiful!

Post by wtfluff » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:28 am

Not Buying It wrote:Wow, Mayan Elephant - well said! Your comments have my hearty endorsement.

I would like to point out that the website is somewhat dishonest in its response in the FAQ answer to the question "Will the Church Ever Change Its Doctrine and Sanction Same-Sex Marriages?" https://mormonandgay.lds.org/articles/f ... -questions :
Central to God’s plan, the doctrine of marriage between a man and woman is an integral teaching of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and will not change:

“As a doctrinal principle, based on the scriptures, the Church affirms that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

“Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Any other sexual relations, including those between persons of the same gender, are sinful and undermine the divinely created institution of the family. The Church accordingly affirms defining marriage as the legal and lawful union between a man and a woman” (Handbook 2: Administering the Church)
What about polygamy? The Church didn't always define marriage as being between "a" man and "a" woman, the statement would lead an uninformed reader to think that heterosexual monogamy has always been the Church's definition of marriage. But it hasn't been, has it? So if the definition can change to exclude polygamy, why can't it change to include same-sex marriages? The Church ought not be talking about its definition of marriage as though it has never and could never change.
Exactly NBI. The Q15 constantly preaching marriage between one man and one woman honestly makes them look like idiots when they're running a church that was founded as a polygamous sex cult, and they still practice a forms of polygamy literally every day somewhere in one of their temples.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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Yobispo
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Re: Updated mormon and gay website- pitiful!

Post by Yobispo » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:20 am

I have a daughter at a church school who came out in 2016. She is amazing, by the way, but had a rough road in almost complete silence because of how her daddy, ME, followed the $%#@ prophet on gay issues.

She is very involved in the gay student organization (which is still off-campus, BTW) and so she was in the loop on this few a few weeks pre-release. She and I agreed that it's the same old BS. She told me that she has a good friend who is a gay young man who wants nothing more than to marry a guy and raise a family in the church. This friend was over-the-moon happy about the site.

So while my baby girl (hey, I'm a dad) and I agree that the new site is a re-has of the old BS, we also agree that it may soften the landing for some gay kids because the new site is attached to the main page, got rid of the S so you can actually BE Mormon and Gay. If it keeps a few parents from chucking their kids, then I applaud the effort. But don't kids yourself, the church will never change the doctrine on this issue.

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Corsair
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Re: Updated mormon and gay website- pitiful!

Post by Corsair » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:45 am

Yobispo wrote:So while my baby girl (hey, I'm a dad) and I agree that the new site is a re-has of the old BS, we also agree that it may soften the landing for some gay kids because the new site is attached to the main page, got rid of the S so you can actually BE Mormon and Gay. If it keeps a few parents from chucking their kids, then I applaud the effort. But don't kids yourself, the church will never change the doctrine on this issue.
This is a rarely stated crux of the matter from the point of view with believers who are realistic. The LDS church will cease to exist in the current state if it gives up on the gay issue. Female ordination is a fait accompli the moment that two Melchizedek priesthood holder have a sanctioned LDS marriage. The difference between the sexes will largely be erased making the temple ceremony look profoundly hollow. While liberal believers might applaud such changes, they are not the type of members who are willing to be dedicated bishops and stake presidents that the church relies on.

I have endless respect for LGBT Mormons and their Mama Dragon allies. Theirs is truly a Sisyphean effort because the institutional LDS church will cease to be the church they have grown to love if the prophet changes the doctrinal stance on homosexuality. Such a transformation would require a level of forward thinking, prophetic leadership that has not been seen since Joseph Smith delivered the King Follet discourse. The revolutionary fire that drove the early saints has all but gone out beyond a brief flare in 1978 that moved the LDS church back to a conservative mainstream.

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Hagoth
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Re: Updated mormon and gay website- pitiful!

Post by Hagoth » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:55 am

Corsair wrote:uch a transformation would require a level of forward thinking, prophetic leadership that has not been seen since Joseph Smith delivered the King Follet discourse. The revolutionary fire that drove the early saints has all but gone out beyond a brief flare in 1978 that moved the LDS church back to a conservative mainstream.
Its exiting to imagine a version of the church that could still do this, but it's equally difficult to imagine it. What I can imagine is how isolated, irrelevant and shrivelled-up the church become in another generation or two if it sticks to its course.

It cannot happen by secret policy changes. It would require a dynamic leader who actually claims to speak for God, and that is exactly what the current church is set up to avoid. Such a visionary would get weeded out by the time he was an elder.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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