Would the church thrive if it gave up control?

[redjay]

An earlier post I made got me thinking...

If the church gave up control would it thrive - being seen as attractive, uplifting and relevant?

Or would it be seen as just another Christian denomination and have no unique selling point?

So what do I mean by less control (mostly less cultish):

Have the 12 tell people they have not seen and do not talk with jesus
Financial transparency
Remove tithing as a condition of righteousness
Make sexual activity a don't ask don't tell topic (e.g. gay, masturbation) while still espousing loyalty/fidelity
Accept that we are just one part of the body of Christ
Validate non-literal beliefs in BOM and BOA as acceptable
Joseph Smith as founder but optional acceptance as inspired
Temple and garments as tradition, not essential to salvation
WoW, restated as a word of Wisdom and moderation urged.


I am not asking how likely we are to ever see this, although if anyone wants to chime in on that aspect,that is fine. But if the church did take position as above would it lose members, would it gain members?

[Anon70]

It's an interesting question. Trying to think back to when I was more TBMish and I think I'd have left sooner. I stayed so much out of guilt, fear and indoctrination. It was a relief (eventually) to figure out it was all made up. I tend to think more people would leave. If I need community/religion there are a lot of other ones that do it better and TCOJCOLDS is so far on the other end it would take too long for them to get good at it.

As for the possibility? I think they're going the opposite direction. Now it's not only "you get to clean the churches and temples for your own good" but also "bring the cleaning supplies when you come."

[Culper Jr.]

I don't think it would thrive at all. I was listening to conference today with TBM wife, and there was just nothing there that was interesting or profound, or even entertaining. Our ward, and most others I have ever attended, are run on minuscule budgets by people who feel like they have to be there. Freeing up people from the church's control would only free them to leave something most don't sincerely enjoy anyway.

[moksha]

Seems like the religious groups that are growing on a worldwide basis are those which are most demanding/controlling on their adherents. For Christians, the Assemblies of God and Jehovah Witnesses are the main grow groups. Islam with its medieval notions and Sharia law is the world's fastest growing religion.

Speaking of gateway drugs, you know you've got a bad batch of religion when it leads to Donald Trump.

[wtfluff]

Have the 12 tell people they have not seen and do not talk with jesus
Financial transparency
Remove tithing as a condition of righteousness
Make sexual activity a don't ask don't tell topic (e.g. gay, masturbation) while still espousing loyalty/fidelity
Accept that we are just one part of the body of Christ
Validate non-literal beliefs in BOM and BOA as acceptable
Joseph Smith as founder but optional acceptance as inspired
Temple and garments as tradition, not essential to salvation
WoW, restated as a word of Wisdom and moderation urged.

That list sounds A LOT like The Community of Christ.

If I'm correct, when they started making changes like mentioned in that list, they lost a large part of their membership. (Hopefully John Hamer can chime in here.)

So, I think initially, the LDS Corporation WOULD NOT thrive if they made such changes. Eventually, numbers might begin to increase, but I think the initial hit would be MASSIVE.

[Give It Time]

Speaking of gateway drugs, you know you've got a bad batch of religion when it leads to Donald Trump.

I see the Choir's singing at his inauguration as essentially that. I think everyone in my ward, save three people voted for Trump.

To my point.

I asked this question, but phrased it differently at NOM 1.0. I haven't seen this statement in awhile, but it was quite popular. I'll paraphrase. The Brethren have set up the financial affairs of the church in such a way that it could survive without financial contributions for several decades. It is essentially financially self-sustaining. This means the Brethren could literally choose who they want in the pews. They could totally overhaul this religion and make it more Christian and humane. That financial security, coupled with our supposedly open canon and our doctrine of continuing revelation makes us unique among all religions to make this religion unique and beautiful.

You've seen who has been excommunicated these past few years. You've seen what policies they've put in place. These are the choices they've made. They've chosen the people they want in their seats. When I noticed this, it was pointed out to me there seems to be a correlation between how conservative and controlling a religion is and how successful it is. I don't think it shows much foresight, but it's not my choice to make. It's my choice to stay or go. The leadership will use other religions as their focus groups. When they see this sells in other religions, then it will be revealed to them that such changes can work within this church.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Control IS the secret sauce it seems. There is a segment of society that likes the easy path with black and white answers and direction in every aspect. It does make for a mentally easy way to live in some ways. Add in the narrative of you being a special chosen one, better than your gentile peers and you have a recipe for success. Islam does the same thing.

[redjay]

thanks folks for chiming in - seems like I am naive to hope for progress, this saddens me deeply. There's so many things I like about mormonism - the idea of waste of potential being just about the most awful thing (perdition). The church not being more transparent and inclusive, and not focussing on Christ seems to be such a waste.

As an aside. I tried listening to Priesthood session today, I didn't even make it through the prayer before I cussed loudly in anger at the invocation giver going off on one and saying how grateful we are for the president of the church and the apostles, it was seemed so suck up and focussed on 'the leaders of the church' and not Jesus.

[Not Buying It]

Nope. Control is all they've got. Give that up and who wants to go to their boring meetings every week?

The Church is controlling because it has to be to survive.

[Emower]

I have to agree that it would not thrive. It would be popular with a fairly specific group of fundamentalist type people, but it wouldn't have much draw. It doesn't have a whole lot of draw for me right now. Any draw it does have is related to me having grown up in it.

[moksha]

I think in the long run it would only benefit the Church to be more open and honest. If they did release a fully independent financial audit, hopefully, it would not be overwhelmingly devastating.

[wtfluff]

I think in the long run it would only benefit the Church to be more open and honest. If they did release a fully independent financial audit, hopefully, it would not be overwhelmingly devastating.

In my completely useless opinion, the reason they DON'T release financials is exactly because it would be overwhelmingly devastating.

Really, if they actually have nothing to hide, then "Show us the money!" $$$.

[Corsair]

I think the leadership of the LDS church has already watched that experiment play out. The RLDS church turned into Community of Christ and the process resulted in half of its membership disappearing as well as a fragmentation of wide congregational unity and certainly any truth claims it used to hold as dearly as we still do. The CoC now operates in a different definition of a church with far different goals than the larger Brighamite church. A lot of their conservative base left or changed dramatically.

Community of Christ has turned into what the most liberal Mormon largely wants structurally and doctrinally. The centralized, institutional control has definitely been given up. The larger family of Christian churches looks on CoC with much more brotherhood and familiarity than is ever granted to the singular triumphalist LDS church. What does the LDS church actually have to offer once the indomitable truth claims over essentials ordinances of salvation is removed?

I simply don't think that CoC is anything at all what LDS leadership wants. If doctrine were liberalized I can see a frightening percentage of the tithe paying conservatives joining Denver Snuffer or simply pulling back from their high level of financial and ward involvement. A lot of money from tithes, offerings, and investment moves into the church everyday. Simultaneously, a lot of money moves out of the church in so many expenses like salaries, building, missions, temples, welfare, and dozens of exits we have not comprehended yet. The state of that cash flow is distinctly threatened by pulling back on control.