Word of WISDOM

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
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Rebel
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Word of WISDOM

Post by Rebel » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:19 pm

Does any one else feel like I do that is Coffee is not included in the word of wisdom so I like it and I drink it without any guilt ???? Any other interpretation to me is just man made . What do you think ??

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Red Ryder
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:45 pm

It's included in the WoW as described in the current doctrine.
I believe the church is man made, therefore the current doctrines are man made.
Man made doctrines in a man made church are negotiable.
Therefore I can choose whatever I want to drink.
Guilt free.

Or if that's too complex...

God made coffee beans.
God is good.
Coffee beans are therefore good.

Or if that's too complicated...

I'm an adult.
I can drink whatever I want. :lol:
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:01 pm

Coffee and tea most likely became the interpretation for hot drinks in section 89 based on the Owenite teachings being preached in Kirtland a few years before:
Although the revelations left many of the issues raised by Samuel Underhill and his Kendal Community (see chaps. 5, 7) unresolved, the growing Mormonite congregation continued to discuss these issues among themselves. One of the subjects that may have been part of their conversation was an Owenite interest in proper diet as part of their reform efforts. As one of the leaders of the Kendal Community, Samuel Underhill preached in the villages surrounding Kirtland, and probably in Kirtland itself, on diet and health. He became a leading force in the region’s rising temperance movement, expanding the discussion from promoting abstinence from alcohol to a general avoidance of other unhealthy substances. In 1829, just as the Kendal Community dissolved and Kirtland’s Morley Family organized, Underhill wrote down some of what he was preaching. As a former Quaker, he borrowed scriptural language and forms for his instruction:

Now it came to pass that the sons of men found in the land a certain plant having broad leaves and an acrid taste and it stupified the people. 2. And some burned it and drew the smoke thereof into their mouths & some put it in their mouths and spit forth the juice thereof for it was much & many made it very fine and drew it into their noses. . . . [H]earken unto wisdom & be ye saved. 6. Strong drink is ruin; much wine is an evil, tea is a curse, coffee is injurious, tobaccoes disgustful and poisonous and altogether are a great damnation. 6. [repeated number] Drink water alone, live on simple diet take due exercise and ye shall be happy.35

In addition, Underhill lectured locally on limiting the consumption of meat and particularly recommended abstaining from pork. His lectures generated a continuing discussion among members of the Mormonites in Kirtland since Levi Hancock, who had not been a part of the Morley Family, recalled, “The preaching in Kirtland was against the use of pork."

Mark Staker, Hearken O Ye People

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Emower
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by Emower » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:12 pm

God gave us a brain to use. He doesn't expect it back when it comes to religion. Feel free to use it as it applies to the wow.

20/20hind
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by 20/20hind » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:37 pm

Regarding tobacco and the word of wisdom. Joseph was onto something with that part. I put some Copenhagen chew on a bruise, and it cleared it right up.

Do-terra essential oils has started a new product line for agricultural purposes.

Tobacco oil has been healing sick cattle for the last few years. Its very popular among cattle owners in utah and Idaho.

They call it consecrated tobacco oil. From what i have heard they cant keep it on the shelves.

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moksha
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by moksha » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:17 am

Green tea is probably the healthiest drink of all. Coffee has many benefits. Since the WoW started out as a health recommendation that was later ratified by a vote in General Conference, there is no reason it could not be amended (as the "drinks which warm the belly" was amended) to be more in-line with current medical science and be re-ratified by the hand-to-the-square raisers.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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document
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by document » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:31 am

Does any one else feel like I do that is Coffee is not included in the word of wisdom so I like it and I drink it without any guilt ???? Any other interpretation to me is just man made . What do you think ??
It is man-made if you are not a believing LDS member as everything in the LDS tradition is man-made.

If you are a believer, then calling it "man-made" is a bit of a stretch. The interpretation of "Hot Drinks" as "Teas and Coffees" was given by Hyrum Smith in 1842. At the time he was the assistant to the prophet and was second in command of the church. The church has kept to this interpretation for 175 and has been repeated continually by prophets and first presidencies. His statement was not refuted by Joseph Smith.

In my studies of Mormonism, a lot of modern interpretations of Joseph Smith's work is a stretch. If you read the book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants it doesn't reflect the modern Utah-LDS church at all. The Word of Wisdom is no exception. There is a lot in section 89 that is ignored, such as it being not being a commandment, beer being OK, wine being OK for communion, and eating meat only in times of famine. However, the "teas and coffees" is one case where there is a precedence for it being interpreted that way by someone with authority, not being refuted by the original author (Joseph), and in the appropriate time period. That's actually a bit of a rarity I'm finding.

All that said, there is something to be said regarding the guilt. When facing the feelings of guilt, it is best to ask yourself why you are feeling the guilt.

- Is belief in the word of wisdom causing you feelings of guilt?
- Is the cultural taboo of coffee causing you feelings of guilt?

If the former is true, and you are a believer in the word of Wisdom, just follow it. I hate to be the person who actively encourages a believer to break the rules of their religion. I'd rather skip the coffee and not deal with the guilt.

If the latter is true, then give it a shot. If you like it, repeat. The feelings of guilt caused by the cultural taboo will eventually fade to the point where one day you will look at your coffee pot and not even think of the church.

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Give It Time
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by Give It Time » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:50 pm

The first verses of the WofW said that it isn't to be followed by commandment or constraint, but to be followed as a word of wisdom (treated as good advice). When it's bonk, ignore it. When it's good, follow it.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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MerrieMiss
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by MerrieMiss » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:16 pm

document wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:31 am
All that said, there is something to be said regarding the guilt. When facing the feelings of guilt, it is best to ask yourself why you are feeling the guilt.

- Is belief in the word of wisdom causing you feelings of guilt?
- Is the cultural taboo of coffee causing you feelings of guilt?

If the former is true, and you are a believer in the word of Wisdom, just follow it. I hate to be the person who actively encourages a believer to break the rules of their religion. I'd rather skip the coffee and not deal with the guilt.

If the latter is true, then give it a shot. If you like it, repeat. The feelings of guilt caused by the cultural taboo will eventually fade to the point where one day you will look at your coffee pot and not even think of the church.
This. I drink black tea and feel no guilt as I don't believe in the WoW. I also feel no guilt saying I keep the WoW in a TR interview since I don't drink anything Joseph Smith himself didn't drink. Just following The Prophet.

On a side note and not about coffee, it was interesting and eye-opening to my husband when we watched the Ken Burns documentary on prohibition a few years back. The WoW is not special to Mormonism. A lot of nineteenth century religions had similar teachings and the larger more general temperance movement was a far greater force in making the WoW (prohibition of alcohol) what it is today than anything else.

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document
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by document » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:47 am

On a side note and not about coffee, it was interesting and eye-opening to my husband when we watched the Ken Burns documentary on prohibition a few years back. The WoW is not special to Mormonism. A lot of nineteenth century religions had similar teachings and the larger more general temperance movement was a far greater force in making the WoW (prohibition of alcohol) what it is today than anything else.
I saw the same documentary and I couldn't shake my thoughts on the WoW as well. Interesting.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by Rob4Hope » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:33 am

Joseph Smith Jr and Sr both drank wine in abundance clear until the end. They themselves NEVER followed this part of the rules set forth. Brigham Young purchased distilleries and sold liquor while Prophet (or for profit as the case may be).

This hypocrisy is off the scale.

I don't know how the church can say: "Do what we say, not what we do"...and then justify these men in their obvious poor examples.

I drink a glass of red wine daily--my doctor told me to, and so I do. So there. And the bishop can stick it.

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nibbler
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by nibbler » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:22 am

20/20hind wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:37 pm
Regarding tobacco and the word of wisdom. Joseph was onto something with that part. I put some Copenhagen chew on a bruise, and it cleared it right up.

Do-terra essential oils has started a new product line for agricultural purposes.

Tobacco oil has been healing sick cattle for the last few years. Its very popular among cattle owners in utah and Idaho.

They call it consecrated tobacco oil. From what i have heard they cant keep it on the shelves.
I think it's far more likely that Joseph Smith codified an existing common folk remedy into scripture.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

Bloodhound98
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by Bloodhound98 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:39 pm

I should of read the posts above. But if you read on Mormonthink you will laugh at how the WoW came to be. The brethren thought it would be funny to ban coffee and tea because the women were mad at beer and tobacco. The article is long but very good. Ole Joey drank beer and it was just a suggestion not a temple recommend interview.
I bet Joseph is laughing in his grave about all the stuff we took out of whack!
On a side note my mom told me that she is offended that my wife (who loves coffee) has a temple recommend. Lol

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2bizE
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Re: Word of WISDOM

Post by 2bizE » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:08 am

Bloodhound98 wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:39 pm
I should of read the posts above. But if you read on Mormonthink you will laugh at how the WoW came to be. The brethren thought it would be funny to ban coffee and tea because the women were mad at beer and tobacco. The article is long but very good. Ole Joey drank beer and it was just a suggestion not a temple recommend interview.
I bet Joseph is laughing in his grave about all the stuff we took out of whack!
On a side note my mom told me that she is offended that my wife (who loves coffee) has a temple recommend. Lol
Mild drink from barley (aka beer) is recommended to drink in the WoW, not frowned on. That sure got twisted around.
~2bizE

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