Bednar talk on missionary callings

[2bizE]

In the priesthood session, elder Bednar spoke about many people have carried heavy burdens for being transferred from the mission to another one, or because of circumstances don't make it to the mission they are called to. He explained missionaries receive a call to serve, which is different from the area they are assigned to labour. If the missionary's assigned area changes that is fine.
Have any of you felt this heavy burden as a TBM thinking your assignment change was not from the Lord?

[Palerider]

My mission boundaries were changed and I ended up serving in a different mission and having to learn a foreign language while in the field.
I was really thankful because frankly the first mission had some pretty big problems and I felt much better in the second.
I actually felt the Lord had a hand in getting me to a place I could do well in. Still do.

[Dravin]

The short of it, is my faith in church leadership at the time would have prevented me from thinking they were just pulling locations out of uninspired air. Even a decision to move me due to disobedience would have been considered inspired, even if I would have felt guilt and shame over it and felt it was the best place God thought a failure of a missionary such as I should be. In the end though, still inspired.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

The problem with this talk is they have in the recent past discussed how sacred the process of filling mission assignments is. They have a computer system set up where the picture of the missionary is displayed on one screen and the list of mission vacancies is on the other. The apostles are the ones supposedly sitting there getting revelations to make the right assignment. I think this is also why all the hot girls get called to temple square.

Maybe visa problems are the way the Lord corrects the apostles revelatory misjudgements.

[nibbler]

The problem with this talk is they have in the recent past discussed how sacred the process of filling mission assignments is. They have a computer system set up where the picture of the missionary is displayed on one screen and the list of mission vacancies is on the other. The apostles are the ones supposedly sitting there getting revelations to make the right assignment. I think this is also why all the hot girls get called to temple square.

Maybe visa problems are the way the Lord corrects the apostles revelatory misjudgements.

I've heard the explanation but I think it's more like:

A computer algorithm matches missionary applicants with vacancies coming up in all the various missions. Every once in a while an apostle shows up, nods at the program output, says "yup, that's what we want," and he gets on with the rest of his day.

There were 70,946 missionaries at the time of reporting during the April '17 general conference. I'm going to be generous and divide that number by two (make the assumption that all missionaries are male; factoring in the fact that many are female and that females serve for 1.5 years would only inflate the number at the end of this math exercise). That's 35,473 applications (that get approved) to sort through each year. I'm going to be generous again. Let's assume the work is split evenly among the Q15. Each apostle would have to make a fraction over 2,364 assignments per year or about 6 and a half assignments per day, every day of the year, no vacations.

I don't think that's happening. Who knows. Maybe they sit down every single Friday night and make 50 assignments to meet the quota. Maybe they give "keys" to underlings to make assignments for them.

Still I go with the theory that a computer program manages everything. Every once in a while an apostle shows up to rededicate the server or sprinkle some holy water on it, then stares at the screen and makes a few token reassignments to show the little guy who's in charge.

The theory squares with Bednar's talk about it not mattering where you serve.

In my experience reassignments affect relatively few people, at least not enough to merit a whole talk during the PH session of conference. "Today I speak to the few hundred of you in the church..." It's my experience that more people are disappointed with where they are initially called to serve. Everyone wants to go to Rome, Italy but someone has to fill the slots being vacated in Billings, MT.

[2bizE]

Great points Nibbler. There was a post several months back where the process of assigning missionaries was discussed. There was a video releases of elder oaks sitting with a guy at the computer. Oaks had a long pointer and was looking at pictures and assigning the missions. The Q12 does this weekly for roughly 600 new missionary applications on one day. If I remember correctly, Oaks had about 20 seconds per missionary to decide. Honestly, this seems like a heavy burden on a group of old guys.
I wonder if Bednar is setting us up for a future change where a member of the 70 will start making these assignments.

[Mormorrisey]

Yep, I thought the same when Bednar spent an inordinate amount of time on this. I went to the same mission as three other guys from my area, and we were all amazed at how the Lord worked by sending us all to the same mission at the same time. I'm a little more cynical now, but it would be so easy to just say "the rest of the world is not really happy with all these North Americans coming into the country, so we're having visa issues," but then that would destroy the magic aura about one NEEDING to go to that particular mission and finding YOUR investigator.

Which brings us to the Oaks pointer video. That's the aura they want, even as the realities of visa issues come into play. Bednar's approach, so similar to other issues, is for the church to have its cake and eat it too. It can all be chalked up to the Brethren knowing what they're doing, so stop whining.

[Emower]

I think this is also why all the hot girls get called to temple square

They gotta have something to look at on the way to work...

[2bizE]

I served in three different missions. The first two were temporary visa locations. I admit I felt a bit out of place at the first two as I didnt feel like I really belonged. They were not where I was called to. When I finally made it to my real mission destination, I felt more at home. I never did feel like Bednar described, but I sympathize for those who never made it to their intended mission, as they may have felt like they were not in the right place where the Lord wanted them to be.
I did learn many things from serving in different missions, though.

[Raylan Givens]

My buddy pulled the wool over his SP eyes and applied for a mission after having legal trouble. The inspiration was to send him to a very strict visa country, the "stuff" hit the fan quickly when processing time came.

I still believe information is the best form of inspiration.

I had a comp bemoan being sent to lowly Seattle. He didn't want to do much, luckily his rich parents gave him a credit card. We would visit every restaurant in town for an extremely extended lunch.

I now feel deep regrets for going to Washington to try to convert rich Microsoft execs on the Plateau.

[consiglieri]

This was a very interesting talk, but only after going beneath the banal surface.

I have never encountered any RM who felt guilty that, due to circumstances beyond his or her control, did not end up serving a mission to the area originally called.

I think Elder Bednar is creating this issue out of thin air because he doesn't want to directly address the real issue--the missionaries who have questions regarding the inspiration that called him or her to a mission in the first place that ended up not being the place where the mission was served or completed.

Such an experience would naturally raise the question of where God is in all this--isn't God supposed to know the end from the beginning--and if God calls somebody to serve in a certain mission, but there are visa problems that make it impossible, why didn't God know that in advance and not inspire his apostles to call the missionary to a different place from the get-go?

This is the question I believe Elder Bednar is addressing.

But like a certain Q&A session he had last year, Elder Bednar seems to have "changed the question."

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[redjay]

As I said to Mrs J a couple of weeks ago, it's hard to think of a single thing in the church that has not changed from its original format. It's the sheer exhausting implausibility of all the goalpost moving that makes the gospel, as sold to me, impossible to reconcile with my paradigm of an inspired organisation led by prophets, seers and revelators with Christ atop of the organisation.

Not only that, I find the prevarication and obfuscation extremely condescending.

[20/20hind]

The problem with this talk is they have in the recent past discussed how sacred the process of filling mission assignments is. They have a computer system set up where the picture of the missionary is displayed on one screen and the list of mission vacancies is on the other. The apostles are the ones supposedly sitting there getting revelations to make the right assignment. I think this is also why all the hot girls get called to temple square.

Maybe visa problems are the way the Lord corrects the apostles revelatory misjudgements.

I told my wife about all the good looking sisters getting called to temple sqaure theory, she got all tbm pissy with me, telling me it wasnt true at all.

I can imagine the 12 looking through sister applications.

Oaks; she has a sweet spirit about her. I feel prompted to send her to Maine.

Oaks; next application...mmm i think this sister definitely needs to be called to the mormon mecca sqaure. Because the spirit and a recent photo tells me she will flourish there.

She also got pissed when I told her the church had advertised in the book of mormon musical playbill. She said the church wouldnt do that! My reply was, well the story is in the desnews so you can see for yourself. She never looked. She gives the church way to much credit☹

[Palerider]

This was a very interesting talk, but only after going beneath the banal surface.

I have never encountered any RM who felt guilty that, due to circumstances beyond his or her control, did not end up serving a mission to the area originally called.

I think Elder Bednar is creating this issue out of thin air because he doesn't want to directly address the real issue--the missionaries who have questions regarding the inspiration that called him or her to a mission in the first place that ended up not being the place where the mission was served or completed.

Such an experience would naturally raise the question of where God is in all this--isn't God supposed to know the end from the beginning--and if God calls somebody to serve in a certain mission, but there are visa problems that make it impossible, why didn't God know that in advance and not inspire his apostles to call the missionary to a different place from the get-go?

This is the question I believe Elder Bednar is addressing.

But like a certain Q&A session he had last year, Elder Bednar seems to have "changed the question."

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Somehow I suddenly have the urge to go out and build a straw man after reading your comment Consiglieri!

[2bizE]

I guess the next question is why do mission calls have to be some miraculous revelation from an apostle of the Lord's anointed? Why can't the church just say "We have a need for a missionary to serve in Wisconsin. Will you accept this assignment?" Why all the mythical magic act of the mission call?

[redjay]

I guess the next question is why do mission calls have to be some miraculous revelation from an apostle of the Lord's anointed? Why can't the church just say "We have a need for a missionary to serve in Wisconsin. Will you accept this assignment?" Why all the mythical magic act of the mission call?

Beacuse they are seers and revelators. And must conform to the expectations their presecessors have set.

[Palerider]

I guess the next question is why do mission calls have to be some miraculous revelation from an apostle of the Lord's anointed? Why can't the church just say "We have a need for a missionary to serve in Wisconsin. Will you accept this assignment?" Why all the mythical magic act of the mission call?

If it's actually the Lord calling you to Wisconsin you can hardly say "No". Saying no means breaking or at least damaging your temple covenants.

If it's the church asking you to fill a need you have the option of declining.

[2bizE]

So,senior missionaries can pick and choose where they go. Is their calling different? Are they not call by the lords anointed?

[nibbler]

So,senior missionaries can pick and choose where they go. Is their calling different? Are they not call by the lords anointed?

I think they do it that way for a few reasons:
1) Senior missions don't follow that same program the youth missions follow where everyone pays the same monthly amount regardless of where they end up serving. I suppose the church could always start doing that for seniors but I think the variable rates allow people with various means to serve... even though the cheapest of missions would be prohibitively expensive for me, even while employed!

2) Seniors don't mess around. They are more set in their ways and have reached that stage in life where they're going to do what they want to do. Tossing in a mission lottery at end of life probably wouldn't appeal to them.

3) I think the church would love to see more senior couples serving missions. Allowing them to select the mission they want to serve in probably entices more seniors to serve. A couple might be more inclined to serve if they knew up front that their mission was going to be staffing the visiting center in Hawaii or something.

I guess the next question is why do mission calls have to be some miraculous revelation from an apostle of the Lord's anointed? Why can't the church just say "We have a need for a missionary to serve in Wisconsin. Will you accept this assignment?" Why all the mythical magic act of the mission call?

I think a part of it is tradition. That's the way JS and BY did things.

Going back to the Hawaii thing. No one would sign up for the Billings Montana mission and everyone would try to sign up for the foreign missions.

Missionaries feel a little more enthused and excited when they get a call directly from a prophet of the lord as opposed to being given an assignment based on a computer algorithm that makes the call based on where you submitted your papers from and what day your application was submitted. In other words getting the call from the apostles forms a quasi-connection with a god celebrity. No one on your mission thought it was neat they had a piece of paper (robo)signed by a prophet of god?

Re: the video explaining the mission assignment process.

This reveals my levels of distrust but it's not like that was a candid video. It was produced by the church. That's what the church wants you to believe about the process. On some levels what's presented in the video is true. Oaks probably does show up to point at a screen, but it only happens on special occasions, like when they are shooting a video.

[fh451]

I think Elder Bednar is creating this issue out of thin air because he doesn't want to directly address the real issue--the missionaries who have questions regarding the inspiration that called him or her to a mission in the first place that ended up not being the place where the mission was served or completed.

Such an experience would naturally raise the question of where God is in all this--isn't God supposed to know the end from the beginning--and if God calls somebody to serve in a certain mission, but there are visa problems that make it impossible, why didn't God know that in advance and not inspire his apostles to call the missionary to a different place from the get-go?

I listened to the Mormon Discussions / Radio Free Mormon podcast review of GC this weekend, and their analysis was exactly this. The idea that missionaries somehow carry a "burden" for decades after their mission assignment was changed is a bogus red herring when they don't want to talk about or even mention the possibility that the prophesying-seeing-revelating process of calling missionaries might be defective. There were several talks where they did this kind of misdirection. They are the masters of double speak.

fh451