Tithing

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
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Emower
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Tithing

Post by Emower » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:21 pm

I had a discussion with a family member the other day about my decision to donate my tithing money elsewhere. My issues are the normal objections to corporatism, misuse, and just generally that I don't think Jesus is happy with how the church is using (or not using) tithing money.

The family member was expressing that tithing at its core is returning to God funds with no strings attached. By disagreeing with the church's use I am attaching strings. By my wanting to dictate how it is used it becomes no longer tithing. I am still operating under a Christian paradigm where I still want to tithe somewhere.

I disagree, but this is a different way of thinking about tithing then you typically get from Sunday School. What do you guys think?

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Corsair
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Re: Tithing

Post by Corsair » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:35 pm

Jesus would tell you to donate generously to the poor. Malachi chapter 3 is often quoted in support of tithing but that chapter is about chastising priests who are mishandling tithing funds. Your family member invented a folk doctrine from LDS culture. The LDS church is burdened with far more folk doctrine than it can handle so it should be quickly discarded in favor of the official LDS doctrine.

The "official" LDS doctrine was laid out on March 19, 1970 when the LDS First Presidency sent a letter to presidents of stakes and missions, bishops of wards, and presidents of branches in answer to the question, What is a proper tithe?
The First Presidency of TCOJCOLDS wrote: "For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly."

The church's official General Handbook of Instructions quotes from this March 19, 1970 letter from the First Presidency as what sets forth a definition of what is tithed. Here is a portion of the General Handbook of Instructions from that section:

"The simplest statement we know of is the statement of the Lord himself, namely, that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their
interest annually,' which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this." (First Presidency letter, 19 Mar. 1970; see also D&C 119:4
Here is that verse:
D&C 119:4 wrote:And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
So everyone is entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord and no one is justified in making any other statement than this. Politely but firmly tell your family member that you are following the guidelines according to your spiritual promptings and it's actually none of their business.

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achilles
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Re: Tithing

Post by achilles » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:48 am

Emower wrote:The family member was expressing that tithing at its core is returning to God funds with no strings attached. By disagreeing with the church's use I am attaching strings. By my wanting to dictate how it is used it becomes no longer tithing.
It seems that your family member is equating the Church with God. The Church is not God. The Church is not the Gospel, etc, etc... I don't know if this argument will sway anybody close to you.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

― Carl Sagan

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achilles
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Re: Tithing

Post by achilles » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:52 am

Corsair wrote:So everyone is entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord and no one is justified in making any other statement than this. Politely but firmly tell your family member that you are following the guidelines according to your spiritual promptings and it's actually none of their business.
I really like this. Part of spiritual growth is claiming one's own authority. Choosing how to pay tithing is definitely a way to do that...
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

― Carl Sagan

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Hagoth
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Re: Tithing

Post by Hagoth » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:41 pm

A huge part of my faith transition was realizing that the church is not, and has nothing to do with, God. But the message of the church is that it IS God. It is a church where we worship the church. Just listen to conference; you are constantly told how to serve God, but the underlying message is almost always about serving the church.

Once I got this clear in my head I no longer saw any reason to give money to the church. I proposed to Mrs. Hagoth that we still pay a full tithe but that we each pay our half as we felt moved. I was almost surprised when she agreed, but it worked great for us. She kept giving it to the church and I gave it to my favorite charities. Now that I'm a full time student I pay zero tithing but she continues to pay on her personal income. Over time she began to change her view on tithing too. She still gives some of it to the church, but quite a bit of her tithing goes to help buy food and clothes for friends and acquaintances in need, or to buy materials for making blankets, hats and mittens for the homeless youth shelter. I'm very proud of her.

Tithes paid begrudgingly to a church that you believe is using it in ways that contradict your understanding of the fundamental purpose of tithing is a sad and painful thing. But even sadder is a marriage damaged by all of this madness.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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GoodBoy
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Re: Tithing

Post by GoodBoy » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:44 pm

We are to give our tithing to God, not to the church. God is NOT the church. Jesus didn't have a church, didn't attend church, and didn't start a church. Jesus also made it very clear how to give God money, "Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

Research shows that helping local people that you know makes you very happy. Giving it to some organization that you don't really interact with... not so much.

The church has tons of money, and investments that can and should be sold to do God's work. Give your money to someone who needs it. Not to someone who is going to use it to build a high-end shopping mall so that they don't have to look at poor people on their way to work.
Always been the good kid, but I wanted to know more, and to find and test truth.

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