Apostasy and Frazier Eaton

[blazerb]

As many of you know, Gospel Doctrine is covering D&C and church history this year. Among the many problematic lessons this year, there is one on avoiding apostasy (lesson 24, if anyone cares). It tells the stories of three men who allegedly apostatized for minor reasons: Thomas Marsh, Simonds Ryder, and Frazier Eaton. I have been able to find a lot about the full stories of Thomas Marsh and Simonds Ryder, but there is not much about Frazier Eaton. He donated $700 for the building of the Kirtland Temple and supposedly left the church when there was not room for him at the dedication. There is a brief biography of him at the Joseph Smith Papers project. It shows that, according to census records, Frazier Eaton was living in Hancock County, Illinois in 1840. Nauvoo is located in Hancock County. So, four years after supposedly leaving the church, this guy is still living with the main body of the members. Does anyone know more about this story?

I think the story is as inaccurate as the others, but if anyone knows more please share. Thanks.

[AllieOop]

As many of you know, Gospel Doctrine is covering D&C and church history this year. Among the many problematic lessons this year, there is one on avoiding apostasy (lesson 24, if anyone cares). It tells the stories of three men who allegedly apostatized for minor reasons: Thomas Marsh, Simonds Ryder, and Frazier Eaton. I have been able to find a lot about the full stories of Thomas Marsh and Simonds Ryder, but there is not much about Frazier Eaton. He donated $700 for the building of the Kirtland Temple and supposedly left the church when there was not room for him at the dedication. There is a brief biography of him at the Joseph Smith Papers project. It shows that, according to census records, Frazier Eaton was living in Hancock County, Illinois in 1840. Nauvoo is located in Hancock County. So, four years after supposedly leaving the church, this guy is still living with the main body of the members. Does anyone know more about this story?

I think the story is as inaccurate as the others, but if anyone knows more please share. Thanks.

Here's what I found about him (in a history of Rushford, New York) in the chapter titled "Movements" and how the Mormon elders came into the area:

"Among the many to whom the new doctrine strongly appealed were Mrs. Eliza Ann Phelps and Frazier Eaton....
Mr. Eaton was a prosperous farmer, (owning and occupying the place west of the village now known as the Clark Woods farm), and a prominent member of the Methodist Church. He disposed of all of his property and joined the members who gathered for their long journey. Is is said that he converted all of his means into silver dollars in which he had a peck. Not many years after, he returned poor in purse, broken in health and spirits and never seemed to regain his former thrift."

The other I found was relating to his donation of $700 and then not getting into the dedication:

"1836 Frazier Eaton unable to attend temple dedication
“The finishing of the [Kirtland] Temple had involved a debt of
many thousands, and we all came together to the dedication. The
congregation was so large that we could not all get in; and when
the house was full, then, of course, the doors were closed, and no
more admitted. This caused Elder Frazier Eaton, who had paid
$700 dollars towards building the house, to apostatize, because he
did not get there early enough to the meeting.” (Elder George A.
Smith, JD, 11:10) [The dedication was repeated for rest to attend.]"

By the way.....$700 in 1840 is equal to about $18,000 today. So it was no small contribution that he made!

I did find where it is recorded that Frazier was ordained a member of the the High Counsel (by Hyrum Smith) in 1840 (in a branch 20 miles east of Nauvoo):
"15 Jul 1840, above officers
ordained by Hyrum Smilh. Ordained to the high council
were E. B. Wightman; Frasier Eaton; and Anson Call"

Also there's a record of his daughter, Dolly, dying in Nauvoo in 1843....I could keep looking, but it appears he didn't leave the church in Kirtland. Maybe he "apostatized" briefly but came back?

[AllieOop]

Ok...found this. I agree it's suspect that George A. Smith is the source for this story (not a trustworthy one, IMO).

This is written by a family member and is interesting (Frazier is her fifth great grandfather):

http://relativediscovery.blogspot.com/2 ... ormon.html

[blazerb]

Thank you. That's exactly the context I was looking for.

[Rob4Hope]

It has bothered me for a while how the church uses these cases and re-writes history to frighten others to "stay in".

I read through some of the talk given by Brigham Young on the return of Thomas Marsh. BY is a "dick!"

[Hagoth]

"1836 Frazier Eaton unable to attend temple dedication
“The finishing of the [Kirtland] Temple had involved a debt of
many thousands, and we all came together to the dedication. The
congregation was so large that we could not all get in; and when
the house was full, then, of course, the doors were closed, and no
more admitted. This caused Elder Frazier Eaton, who had paid
$700 dollars towards building the house, to apostatize, because he
did not get there early enough to the meeting.” (Elder George A.
Smith, JD, 11:10) [The dedication was repeated for rest to attend.]"

And the author if this report is none other than George A. Smith, who also gave us the Thomas B. Marsh milk strippings story and was Brigham Young's messenger to the good people of St. George to inform them that the approaching wagon train had a role in the death of Parley P. Pratt, that they were poisoning wells, cutting down fences, and bringing the very gun that killed Joseph Smith to be used on President Young. Hmmm, is there a pattern here?

I think If we knew that whole story of Frazier Eaton it would be the story of a man who selflessly gave everything to the cause he believed in, only to discover that he had been swindled and deceived by the man who not long after that temple dedication fled in the middle of the night to avoid facing the music for an exposed banking fraud. Eaton should probably be pittied as a victim, rather than cursed as a turncoat.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

"1836 Frazier Eaton unable to attend temple dedication
“The finishing of the [Kirtland] Temple had involved a debt of
many thousands, and we all came together to the dedication. The
congregation was so large that we could not all get in; and when
the house was full, then, of course, the doors were closed, and no
more admitted. This caused Elder Frazier Eaton, who had paid
$700 dollars towards building the house, to apostatize, because he
did not get there early enough to the meeting.” (Elder George A.
Smith, JD, 11:10) [The dedication was repeated for rest to attend.]"

And the author if this report is none other than George A. Smith, who also gave us the Thomas B. Marsh milk strippings story and was Brigham Young's messenger to the good people of St. George to inform them that the approaching wagon train had a role in the death of Parley P. Pratt, that they were poisoning wells, cutting down fences, and bringing the very gun that killed Joseph Smith to be used on President Young. Hmmm, is there a pattern here?

I think If we knew that whole story of Frazier Eaton it would be the story of a man who selflessly gave everything to the cause he believed in, only to discover that he had been swindled and deceived by the man who not long after that temple dedication fled in the middle of the night to avoid facing the music for an exposed banking fraud. Eaton should probably be pittied as a victim, rather than cursed as a turncoat.

Hagoth can you provide the reference for the St. George speech, I feel the need to archive that for future use.

[AllieOop]

And the author if this report is none other than George A. Smith, who also gave us the Thomas B. Marsh milk strippings story and was Brigham Young's messenger to the good people of St. George to inform them that the approaching wagon train had a role in the death of Parley P. Pratt, that they were poisoning wells, cutting down fences, and bringing the very gun that killed Joseph Smith to be used on President Young. Hmmm, is there a pattern here?

I think If we knew that whole story of Frazier Eaton it would be the story of a man who selflessly gave everything to the cause he believed in, only to discover that he had been swindled and deceived by the man who not long after that temple dedication fled in the middle of the night to avoid facing the music for an exposed banking fraud. Eaton should probably be pittied as a victim, rather than cursed as a turncoat.

I agree. And, I also agree regarding George A. Smith. I have a very low opinion of him and he is not at all trustworthy as a source.

[Not Buying It]

The whole premise of the lesson is so troubling. It is pretty much saying "There are no good reasons for leaving the Church. See, here are three examples of people who left the Church over frivolous, paltry little concerns, and that's the case for anyone who leaves the Church".

It trivializes, dismisses, and discounts my issues with Church in a condescending and uncaring way, and paints all of us discontents as being upset over little bits of nothing. These kinds of lessons infuriate me.

[moksha]

If the 1840 reference of ordination is correct, it would appear the entire story of leaving was inaccurate. Perhaps G.A. Smith was operating on the principle of "if I fooled you once, I can fool you again".

[Hagoth]

I agree. And, I also agree regarding George A. Smith. I have a very low opinion of him and he is not at all trustworthy as a source.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot one. George A. Smith is also the ONLY witness of a long scroll for the Book of Abraham, a supposed memory from when he was 5-years old, but which was told 63 years after the fact. Of course, that story is already highly suspect since it came from a reminiscence of something Hugh NIbley (already wielding an agenda) recalled his uncle saying he had heard from Smith, many years removed in his own memory.

[AllieOop]

I agree. And, I also agree regarding George A. Smith. I have a very low opinion of him and he is not at all trustworthy as a source.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot one. George A. Smith is also the ONLY witness of a long scroll for the Book of Abraham, a supposed memory from when he was 5-years old, but which was told 63 years after the fact. Of course, that story is already highly suspect since it came from a reminiscence of something Hugh NIbley (already wielding an agenda) recalled his uncle saying he had heard from Smith, many years removed in his own memory.

Ok. Wow. I did NOT know that. The whole "long scroll" or "missing scroll" apologetic argument is ridiculous and after reading this, it just became even more ridiculous. Thanks for posting this!

[asa]

I understand the scepticism and the reluctance to rely on George but does anyone have more reliable contemporaneous sources that would explain his decision. Speculation doesn't count.

[Mormorrisey]

The whole premise of the lesson is so troubling. It is pretty much saying "There are no good reasons for leaving the Church. See, here are three examples of people who left the Church over frivolous, paltry little concerns, and that's the case for anyone who leaves the Church".

It trivializes, dismisses, and discounts my issues with Church in a condescending and uncaring way, and paints all of us discontents as being upset over little bits of nothing. These kinds of lessons infuriate me.

When I was still the GD doctrine teacher, I had great plans for this lesson. In fact, I told a close relative that this would be the last lesson I would teach, as I was going to burn all bridges. (Maybe the Strenghening Church Membership Committee was listening to this and that's why I was released? Tin foil hat, please.) I would have read these three stories, talked about them, and then I would have gone into the essays to find out WHY people were apostatizing. You see, that's what the lesson leaves out, is WHY people were leaving between 1835-1836. I planned on putting these three things on the chalkboard:

1) The Mormon-Missouri War
2) The Kirtland Anti-Banking Society
3) Fanny Alger

So I would have corrected the stupid Thomas B Marsh story, and provided some context why the Whitmers and Oliver Cowdery left. I also would have put most of the blame on Joseph himself, which really should be the focus of the lesson. If the Danites didn't exist, if there were no financial shenanigans going on, and if he didn't marry a 16 year old girl without any "revelation" to back it up, why WOULDN'T people have issues with this? Why wouldn't people question what the prophet was teaching them, if this kind of nonsense was taking place? That's the only sad thing about being released as the GD teacher earlier this year; I would have loved to correct people's previously accepted views and turned this stupid lesson on its head. As it stands, I have marked this lesson down, and plan to say many of these things anyways.

[moksha]

If the 1840 reference of ordination is correct, it would appear the entire story of leaving was inaccurate. Perhaps G.A. Smith was operating on the principle of "if I fooled you once, I can fool you again".

Ha! Once the story is out there it alters reality as we know it. So if he didn't actually leave, he still left in the story for no good reason and that makes him figuratively fickle thus proving perhaps the truth of both the Church and the need to rotate our tires on a regular basis. There is no need to ponder the conundrum of whether the story was made up or simply embellished with fibs for the Lord. When it is printed in the Gospel Doctrine Manual it becomes an established article of belief.

[AllieOop]

If the 1840 reference of ordination is correct, it would appear the entire story of leaving was inaccurate. Perhaps G.A. Smith was operating on the principle of "if I fooled you once, I can fool you again".

Ha! Once the story is out there it alters reality as we know it. So if he didn't actually leave, he still left in the story for no good reason and that makes him figuratively fickle thus proving perhaps the truth of both the Church and the need to rotate our tires on a regular basis. There is no need to ponder the conundrum of whether the story was made up or simply embellished with fibs for the Lord. When it is printed in the Gospel Doctrine Manual it becomes an established article of belief.

I love it when the penquin talks to himself

(Great post too!)


********************************

[Hagoth]

I understand the scepticism and the reluctance to rely on George but does anyone have more reliable contemporaneous sources that would explain his decision. Speculation doesn't count.

Good point, Asa. Considering the apparent lack of good sources, maybe the lesson manual should take a if-you-can't-say-anything-good-don't-say-anything-at-all stance on this one. The constant rehashing of the Marsh story, on the other hand, totally overlooks the contemporary explanation and goes with the rumor every time.

[Hagoth]

Does anyone know if Frazier Eaton was related to Marinus G. Eaton? Marinus was a non-Mormon counterfeiter from New York who became good friends with Joseph in Nauvoo and who he made his personal aide-de-camp in the Nauvoo Legion.

[AllieOop]

Good point, Asa. Considering the apparent lack of good sources, maybe the lesson manual should take a if-you-can't-say-anything-good-don't-say-anything-at-all stance on this one. The constant rehashing of the Marsh story, on the other hand, totally overlooks the contemporary explanation and goes with the rumor every time.

I agree. Or, they should tell the rest of the story regarding Marsh and learn how he was treated by Brigham Young when he returned to the church years later. The things Brigham stated publicly to humiliate and embarrass him are shameful.

After Marsh addressed the congregation asking for them to accept him back, here is part of what Brigham stood and said about him from the pulpit:

In conversing with brother Marsh, I find that he is about the same Thomas that he always was—full of anecdotes and chit-chat. He could hardly converse for ten minutes without telling an anecdote. His voice and style of conversation are familiar to me.

He has told you that he is an old man. Do you think that I am an old man? I could prove to this congregation that I am young; for I could find more girls who would choose me for a husband than can any of the young men.

Brother Thomas considers himself very aged and infirm, and you can see that he is, brethren and sisters. What is the cause of it? He left the Gospel of salvation. What do you think the difference is between his age and mine? One year and seven months to a day; and he is one year, seven months, and fourteen days older than brother Heber C. Kimball.

“Mormonism” keeps men and women young and handsome; and when they are full of the Spirit of God, there are none of them but what will have a glow upon their countenances; and that is what makes you and me young; for the Spirit of God is with us and within us.

When brother Thomas thought of returning to the Church, the plurality of wives troubled him a good deal. Look at him. Do you think it need to? I do not; for I doubt whether he could get one wife. Why it should have troubled an infirm old man like him is not for me to say.

[blazerb]

“Mormonism” keeps men and women young and handsome; and when they are full of the Spirit of God, there are none of them but what will have a glow upon their countenances; and that is what makes you and me young; for the Spirit of God is with us and within us.

When brother Thomas thought of returning to the Church, the plurality of wives troubled him a good deal. Look at him. Do you think it need to? I do not; for I doubt whether he could get one wife. Why it should have troubled an infirm old man like him is not for me to say.

Maybe this is why I have problems with the church. I've never been exactly handsome, even when I was young. I am going to think of ways to bring up these quotes in the lesson.