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BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:02 am
by moksha
The Pulitzer Prize Board awarded the 2017 award for Best Local Reporting to the Salt Lake Tribune
for "a string of vivid reports revealing the perverse, punitive and cruel treatment given to sexual assault victims at Brigham Young University, one of Utah’s most powerful institutions".
http://www.pulitzer.org/prize-winners-by-year/2017
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:41 am
by Give It Time
Hot dang!
I saw that headline, but didn't have time to read the article. That is exciting news!
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:30 am
by No Tof
Hmmmmmmmmmmm...... sexual predation, cover ups, keeping the truth hidden......... I wonder if the idea of destroying the printing press will be discussed in Salt Lake? Seems like our (strike out "our" and put in the church's ) history keeps repeating itself.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:20 am
by Just This Guy
Why do I get the feeling that the church wishes there were just a printing press they could destroy? Missing the good ol' days before the internet where they could sweep stuff under the rug with much less exposure.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:07 am
by Mormorrisey
The real award should go to those courageous young women who came forward with their stories, and made sure that their voices were heard, despite the church's own PR machine calling it "gotcha" journalism. Got the Tribune a Pulitzer, and hopefully it gave those women some peace at last. And, to top it off, BYU was forced to change to some degree at least, its antiquated, victim-blaming system of honour code stupidity.
These women are the real heroes here, and I, as an internet nobody, salute them.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:17 am
by Give It Time
Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:07 am
The real award should go to those courageous young women who came forward with their stories, and made sure that their voices were heard, despite the church's own PR machine calling it "gotcha" journalism. Got the Tribune a Pulitzer, and hopefully it gave those women some peace at last. And, to top it off, BYU was forced to change to some degree at least, its antiquated, victim-blaming system of honour code stupidity.
These women are the real heroes here, and I, as an internet nobody, salute them.
Thank you. Judging by my experience, I'm sure those brave young women don't get a whole lot of saluting. I join you in that salute, as well.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:49 am
by deacon blues
This just proves that Satan has control of the Pulitzer committee
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:49 am
by Corsair
deacon blues wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:49 am
This just proves that Satan has control of the Pulitzer committee
If Pharisees had not been in charge of the BYU Honor Code office, Satan would have no story to push on the Pulitzer committee. Perhaps a prophet, seer, or revelator could have foreseen this except they were busy disenfranchising the children of homosexuals.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:23 am
by Not Buying It
Corsair wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:49 am
deacon blues wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:49 am
This just proves that Satan has control of the Pulitzer committee
If Pharisees had not been in charge of the BYU Honor Code office, Satan would have no story to push on the Pulitzer committee. Perhaps a prophet, seer, or revelator could have foreseen this except they were busy disenfranchising the children of homosexuals.
This is an important point - let's not lose sight of this. You had an institution owned by a Church supposedly let by a Prophet who supposedly talks regularly to God - and it took investigative reporting by the "evil" Salt Lake Tribune to change some incredibly vicious, uncaring and harmful policies at BYU regarding rape victims? God couldn't be bothered to say "Oh, yeah, by the way, some of my daughters are being re-victimized after sexual assaults down at BYU by the Honor Code Office, we need to fix that". This is an excellent example of how not inspired and not led by God Church leadership is. And what was their response after the stories came out in the Trib? Crying about "gotcha journalism". We should all be outraged.
Three cheers for the Trib. They deserve all the praise they get. A million and three cheers for the brave young women who stood up to call out the BYU policies for the great evil that there were. And BYU and the Church deserve every little bit of bad press they get over this, plus some.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:08 am
by Korihor
No Tof wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:30 am
I wonder if the idea of destroying the printing press will be discussed in Salt Lake? Seems like our (strike out "our" and put in the church's ) history keeps repeating itself.
Well, they're doing their best to destroy the credibility of this press even if they can't physically destroy something.
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/m ... ay-19-2016
This is analogous to what is known in the trade as “gotcha journalism” — a practice unworthy of any serious newspaper seeking for balance in its reporting.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:16 pm
by Give It Time
Not Buying It wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:23 am
Corsair wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:49 am
deacon blues wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:49 am
This just proves that Satan has control of the Pulitzer committee
If Pharisees had not been in charge of the BYU Honor Code office, Satan would have no story to push on the Pulitzer committee. Perhaps a prophet, seer, or revelator could have foreseen this except they were busy disenfranchising the children of homosexuals.
This is an important point - let's not lose sight of this. You had an institution owned by a Church supposedly let by a Prophet who supposedly talks regularly to God - and it took investigative reporting by the "evil" Salt Lake Tribune to change some incredibly vicious, uncaring and harmful policies at BYU regarding rape victims? God couldn't be bothered to say "Oh, yeah, by the way, some of my daughters are being re-victimized after sexual assaults down at BYU by the Honor Code Office, we need to fix that". This is an excellent example of how not inspired and not led by God Church leadership is. And what was their response after the stories came out in the Trib? Crying about "gotcha journalism". We should all be outraged.
Three cheers for the Trib. They deserve all the praise they get. A million and three cheers for the brave young women who stood up to call out the BYU policies for the great evil that there were. And BYU and the Church deserve every little bit of bad press they get over this, plus some.
When I first divorced, I didn't point out things like this, but things similar to this to TBMs who would try to excuse my ex's abuse. They'd say something like men are just violent and I should accept that. To which I'd respond, if they are just violent and that's all there is to it, then it's immoral to seal--and thereby, trap--women and children in unsafe situations and I believe the Lord knows all that and agrees with me, especially since I've pointed out that femicide and infanticide are very distinct possibilities.
It is things like this that say to me they aren't led by God and the fact that this is the way it was established from the foundation of this church tells me the leadership isn't led by God and never was.
This has been going on at BYU as long as there have been female students. It's not a phenomenon unique to this generation.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:57 pm
by 2bizE
Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:08 am
No Tof wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:30 am
I wonder if the idea of destroying the printing press will be discussed in Salt Lake? Seems like our (strike out "our" and put in the church's ) history keeps repeating itself.
Well, they're doing their best to destroy the credibility of this press even if they can't physically destroy something.
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/m ... ay-19-2016
This is analogous to what is known in the trade as “gotcha journalism” — a practice unworthy of any serious newspaper seeking for balance in its reporting.
I wish there were a comment feature on the LDS newsroom.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:51 pm
by RubinHighlander
2bizE wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:57 pm
I wish there were a comment feature on the LDS newsroom.
There was a link in there to a site where you could leave feedback:
https://feedback2016.byu.edu/
But it times out, at least for me:
- ByuFeedback.JPG (75.07 KiB) Viewed 13343 times
Oh the irony...
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:32 am
by Vlad the Emailer
Not Buying It wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:23 am
Three cheers for the Trib. They deserve all the praise they get. A million and three cheers for the brave young women who stood up to call out the BYU policies for the great evil that there were. And BYU and the Church deserve every little bit of bad press they get over this, plus some.
Agreed.
Those that don't want to be the subject of "gotcha journalism" need to not do things for which someone can getcha.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:11 pm
by mooseman
After the award was announced, apologist came out in force to protect the honor code. It actually prevents assualt don't cha know....
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... aults.html
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:19 pm
by Rob4Hope
I didn't go to the Y. I am amazed at how many want to go down there. I guess it's because is the Lord's School.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:44 pm
by Mad Jax
Doesn't this speak to a bigger problem overall, and that is the question of why an institution of higher learning is tasked with something that should be a criminal investigation? I'm tempted to say that federal law under Title IX should not require academics to conduct these sorts of hearings when law enforcement and the criminal justice system are better equipped, better trained, and more experienced in these matters. I can understand its use for harassment and other forms of misconduct, but shouldn't actual sexual assault and rape should fall under the authority of those with the investigative skills to accurately collect evidence and pursue suspects? Does anyone else think this is a severely misplaced burden of responsibility? I'm open to suggestions otherwise but it's always been a question I've found difficult to ignore.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:07 pm
by alas
Mad Jax wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:44 pm
Doesn't this speak to a bigger problem overall, and that is the question of why an institution of higher learning is tasked with something that should be a criminal investigation? I'm tempted to say that federal law under Title IX should not require academics to conduct these sorts of hearings when law enforcement and the criminal justice system are better equipped, better trained, and more experienced in these matters. I can understand its use for harassment and other forms of misconduct, but shouldn't actual sexual assault and rape should fall under the authority of those with the investigative skills to accurately collect evidence and pursue suspects? Does anyone else think this is a severely misplaced burden of responsibility? I'm open to suggestions otherwise but it's always been a question I've found difficult to ignore.
Having worked as a rape counselor, and training police in how to best handle rape victims, my understanding is that it is a matter of jurisdiction. When a rape happens on campus, it is the jurisdiction of the campus security, who ARE law enforcement for campus, just as is a robbery that happens on campus. When a rape happens off campus, even if it involves students, the police over the city or county where it happens have jurisdiction. As to WHY campus wants its own police department, probably it gives them better control. So, campus is sort of a mini city inside of a bigger city, sort of like the Vatican is its own country inside of Italy.
The rape that BYU got into the news over was one that happened off campus and was being handled by the city police. But the rapist had a friend in the department who wanted to get the victim in trouble for reporting the rape. So, he (illegally) turned over the police report to the honor code office, who investigated the victim as an honor code violator. Other times when the rape was on campus, the campus security let the honor code office know if the victim had done anything to disobey the honor code, then she could be kicked out of school for drinking or being in a boys apartment or what ever she might have done.the point was, that no one would have known she broke honor code if she had not reported the rape.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:03 pm
by Give It Time
alas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:07 pm
Mad Jax wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:44 pm
Doesn't this speak to a bigger problem overall, and that is the question of why an institution of higher learning is tasked with something that should be a criminal investigation? I'm tempted to say that federal law under Title IX should not require academics to conduct these sorts of hearings when law enforcement and the criminal justice system are better equipped, better trained, and more experienced in these matters. I can understand its use for harassment and other forms of misconduct, but shouldn't actual sexual assault and rape should fall under the authority of those with the investigative skills to accurately collect evidence and pursue suspects? Does anyone else think this is a severely misplaced burden of responsibility? I'm open to suggestions otherwise but it's always been a question I've found difficult to ignore.
Having worked as a rape counselor, and training police in how to best handle rape victims, my understanding is that it is a matter of jurisdiction. When a rape happens on campus, it is the jurisdiction of the campus security, who ARE law enforcement for campus, just as is a robbery that happens on campus. When a rape happens off campus, even if it involves students, the police over the city or county where it happens have jurisdiction. As to WHY campus wants its own police department, probably it gives them better control. So, campus is sort of a mini city inside of a bigger city, sort of like the Vatican is its own country inside of Italy.
The rape that BYU got into the news over was one that happened off campus and was being handled by the city police. But the rapist had a friend in the department who wanted to get the victim in trouble for reporting the rape. So, he (illegally) turned over the police report to the honor code office, who investigated the victim as an honor code violator. Other times when the rape was on campus, the campus security let the honor code office know if the victim had done anything to disobey the honor code, then she could be kicked out of school for drinking or being in a boys apartment or what ever she might have done.the point was, that no one would have known she broke honor code if she had not reported the rape.
Okay... Being a female and having lived in campus housing, I can tell you for a fact that young men are a) in the dorms after hours, b) young men to into the young women's bedrooms and c) young men to into the young women's bedrooms after hours.
So...
The rape victim gets punished if the rape happens in her bedroom AND she gets punished if I it happens in his bedroom. Alrighty,v let's just up and say the woman is 100% responsible, shall we?
Let's throw out this question for consideration. Why doesn't the rapist get double punishment for his violation AND being in her bedroom or having her in his? We could throw in he wasn't honoring his priesthood, either.
Re: BYU makes for a good story
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:50 am
by Mad Jax
alas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:07 pm
Mad Jax wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:44 pm
Doesn't this speak to a bigger problem overall, and that is the question of why an institution of higher learning is tasked with something that should be a criminal investigation? I'm tempted to say that federal law under Title IX should not require academics to conduct these sorts of hearings when law enforcement and the criminal justice system are better equipped, better trained, and more experienced in these matters. I can understand its use for harassment and other forms of misconduct, but shouldn't actual sexual assault and rape should fall under the authority of those with the investigative skills to accurately collect evidence and pursue suspects? Does anyone else think this is a severely misplaced burden of responsibility? I'm open to suggestions otherwise but it's always been a question I've found difficult to ignore.
Having worked as a rape counselor, and training police in how to best handle rape victims, my understanding is that it is a matter of jurisdiction. When a rape happens on campus, it is the jurisdiction of the campus security, who ARE law enforcement for campus, just as is a robbery that happens on campus. When a rape happens off campus, even if it involves students, the police over the city or county where it happens have jurisdiction. As to WHY campus wants its own police department, probably it gives them better control. So, campus is sort of a mini city inside of a bigger city, sort of like the Vatican is its own country inside of Italy.
Curious then... what about other crimes? I can't imagine that if task force found a meth lab on campus, suddenly they would defer to the school's jurisdiction. I'm not doubting the veracity of what you say, I'm just questioning the wisdom of it.