2017 General Conference Autopsy Report

[consiglieri]

For those with any interest, Radio Free Mormon has published a 70-minute report on the most recent General Conference, looking at a handful of themes that emerge from the different stories shared by LDS Church leaders.

What the LDS Church preaches is one thing. What the stories they select to tell is often something different.

For example, one of the themes discussed is that the LDS Church is more important than anything else . . . including your family.

Another theme is that there are no more miracles in the LDS Church.

It is a bit surprising to see story after story told in GC that support both these themes while at the same time the LDS Church openly proclaims that that the family is the most important thing, and that revelation and miracles are ongoing realities in the LDS Church.

For your consideration.

http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/ ... sy-report/

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[20/20hind]

Your podcasts have been great. Cant wait to listen to this one.

[fh451]

I agree - good stuff! This one was, IMO, particularly scathing in that the evidence of what they imply with every single story they bring up is in such stark contrast to what they claim is important, i.e., "family first." BULL S**T! Every story clearly says "CHURCH FIRST, and you'll like it!" The prevarication with respect to "miraculous" occurrences in order to make them even remotely miraculous is also pretty damning.

fh451

[nibbler]

For example, one of the themes discussed is that the LDS Church is more important than anything else . . . including your family.

Listening live that message came through loud and clear. I'd say it was the overall theme of the April '17 conference sessions.

Another theme is that there are no more miracles in the LDS Church.

I must have missed that one. I guess I need to listen to the podcast.

[Rob4Hope]

I loved the podcast. I didn't listen to cinference. I haven't since I read one of Bednars books and dropped it gaciously in the trash can.

The lack of prespective about balance and priority has been something that helped drive me away...so nothing in the podcast surprised me. But it was well done.

[fh451]

Another theme is that there are no more miracles in the LDS Church.

I must have missed that one. I guess I need to listen to the podcast.

When the talks are quoted, it becomes pretty obvious. The only miracles you should expect today are either coincidences, medical procedures, meeting someone in an unexpected place, getting an idea, or having a blessing fail and a person die, but feel peaceful about it. It's a frickin' miracle!

Man I'm feeling snarky today...

fh451

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

This was a great breakdown of the themes of conference. I also enjoyed the discussions you had with Bill. Some of the comments recieved on Bill's site showed a lot of individuals who can't hack the valid criticisms yet. They are obviously still really sensitive about having their own belief system scrutinized. I enjoy reading your responses to commenters especially when you ask them to counter with specifics and no response is received. Your responses are measured and reasonable while their comments are emotionally charged.

[GoodBoy]

Radio Free Mormon is awesome. That is all.

[Hagoth]

I really enjoyed the podcast, Consiglieri. You get the Good Thinker award sticker on your forehead!

You ask a question about what the loyal members should expect to get, since the speakers are repeatedly telling them that they should not expect actual, tangible blessings. I think the implied message is that remaining faithful despite the lack of any evidence of real priesthood power or prophesy is really the the only reward. If you fail to remain faithful in the face of relentless disappointment it is your own fault and you deserve to have rocks thrown at you from the pulpit.

I am troubled by the fact that, in a church that has always claimed amazing spiritual gifts, powers and ongoing prophesy, it is now becoming a sign of weakness and apostasy to expect any manifestations of the very things that we are taught make our church superior to all others.

[moksha]

It would be fun to hear a Conference talk outlining our first concerns as being God and Humanity. For the sake of Conference talk continuity, we could have Art, Science, and the Church vie for the third, fourth, and fifth position of our concerns.


Brownie points could be rewarded for any talk that lists The Elder Scrolls 6 in the top ten concerns.

[consiglieri]

I am troubled by the fact that, in a church that has always claimed amazing spiritual gifts, powers and ongoing prophesy, it is now becoming a sign of weakness and apostasy to expect any manifestations of the very things that we are taught make our church superior to all others.

I sometimes wonder if we are watching the apostasy happen before our very eyes.

I mean, we know that mainstream Christianity went from a belief in spiritual gifts to a stance that they were a thing of the past.

Is this the bridge by which they passed from one to the other? Still claiming to have spiritual gifts when their absence is palpable?

[MoPag]

Brownie points could be rewarded for any talk that lists The Elder Scrolls 6 in the top ten concerns.

Um this is my main concern for sure!!!!

Consiglieri, wonderful podcast! And yes I think we are watching an apostasy. Glad we are on this side if it though.

You should check out the Women's conference too. We got some of the same sh*t from the main GC. There were two stories about terminally ill women serving in their RS presidencies.

[Mad Jax]

Maybe Strang's followers backed the right horse.

[Hagoth]

Maybe Strang's followers backed the right horse.

At least they had actual plates!

[Zack Tacorin Dos]

I didn't watch or hear even one of the conference talks this time around. I'm pretty sure that's the first time I missed all talks from a GC since I joined the Church decades ago. It was good to be apart from all that. However, I just finished listening to your and Bill Reel's April 2017 General Conference Review, Parts 1 and 2 this morning and it was amazing. As 20/20 Hind said:

Your podcasts have been great. Cant wait to listen to this one [the autopsy].

From your review, I gather the general leaders are doing what many have predicted--doubling down in fundamentalism and legalism. It's a normal enough reaction to the getting called out on their BS, but I still find it sad. Devout believers are likely to be burdened deeper, abused more heavily, and spiritually traumatized more regularly as the legalistic fundamentalism gets thicker.

The only upside I see to this is that some will leave sooner as a result of the Church's efforts to become more and more like their controlling and manipulative sisters, the Watch Tower Society and the Church of Scientology.

I'm looking forward to the autopsy. That sounds like a morbid fascination on my part, and I guess it is.

Thanks Consigliere, I really appreciate the work you put into these podcasts,
Zack

[RubinHighlander]

Great pod cast! Truly and eye opener as to the real messages being given there and the emphasis on serving the church and the COB over all other things in life.

This reminded me of one of my shelf breakers: Monson has not given any direct or substantive testimony of the truth claims of the church, at least not in a General Conference, since 2005.

[20/20hind]

Listened to it. Great as usual. But holy hell. These talks are all about church first. No matter what is happening in your life. Church, church, church, church. Should be your first thought and action.

Glad im out..

They have really latched onto to this church service first thing. But honesty where in the hell does it say in any scripture that going to church every sunday and fulfilling your calling helps you get exalted.

I havent seen any scripture that says, thou shalt attend church every sunday and teach in sunbeams.

D&C 132 is the only scripture that promises exaltation if you enter into it.

[Zack Tacorin Dos]

Great autopsy Consigliere!

As I was listening, it almost sounded like the theme of dumbing down miracles/priesthood power and the theme of Church first were at odds with each other. The fundamentalism of "Church first" doesn't seem congruent with the dumbing down of the miraculous to me. Again, I didn't listen to any of the talks this time around, so I was wondering if anyone who did has any thoughts on this. Are these two themes the result of a schism in the leadership on how to work through the challenges with "Church growth"? If not, what do you think's going on? Maybe the dumbing down of the miraculous isn't contrary to fundamentalism? Maybe it's just a way for a fundamentalist mindset to deal with the cog-dis of the unseen miracles?

[alas]

Great autopsy Consigliere!

As I was listening, it almost sounded like the theme of dumbing down miracles/priesthood power and the theme of Church first were at odds with each other. The fundamentalism of "Church first" doesn't seem congruent with the dumbing down of the miraculous to me. Again, I didn't listen to any of the talks this time around, so I was wondering if anyone who did has any thoughts on this. Are these two themes the result of a schism in the leadership on how to work through the challenges with "Church growth"? If not, what do you think's going on? Maybe the dumbing down of the miraculous isn't contrary to fundamentalism? Maybe it's just a way for a fundamentalist mindset to deal with the cog-dis of the unseen miracles?

I don't see these two messages as contradictory at all, but really two parts of the same message. To sum up, "give everything to the church, expect nothing in return." See, those relief society presidents who were dying served and didn't expect to have their cancer cured, or for their family to have material blessings from it, or to hear the prophet actually prophecy, nope, they were content to just give everything they could to the church.

PS, but I probably could not have verbalized it without hearing your thoughts, so thanks for what you said.

[Zack Tacorin Dos]

Great autopsy Consigliere!

As I was listening, it almost sounded like the theme of dumbing down miracles/priesthood power and the theme of Church first were at odds with each other. The fundamentalism of "Church first" doesn't seem congruent with the dumbing down of the miraculous to me. Again, I didn't listen to any of the talks this time around, so I was wondering if anyone who did has any thoughts on this. Are these two themes the result of a schism in the leadership on how to work through the challenges with "Church growth"? If not, what do you think's going on? Maybe the dumbing down of the miraculous isn't contrary to fundamentalism? Maybe it's just a way for a fundamentalist mindset to deal with the cog-dis of the unseen miracles?

I don't see these two messages as contradictory at all, but really two parts of the same message. To sum up, "give everything to the church, expect nothing in return." See, those relief society presidents who were dying served and didn't expect to have their cancer cured, or for their family to have material blessings from it, or to hear the prophet actually prophecy, nope, they were content to just give everything they could to the church.

PS, but I probably could not have verbalized it without hearing your thoughts, so thanks for what you said.

The idea that the two ideas could be a reflection of a schism probably comes from wishful thinking on my part. If you're right about this, and I suspect you are, it's even more sad than just the GAs dealing with cog dis. Your conclusion seems to fit better with what I think is a siege mentality resulting from the contexts of stagnating growth, MormonLeaks and other media fiascos, losses on the social issues front, etc. I'm having another moment of sad disappointment in the men I used to admire so much.

Thanks for your input,
Zack