LDS Church and BSA part ways

[Anon70]

My kids have had amazing scout leaders and amazing activities and experiences. From what I'm reading here and elsewhere perhaps that was not the norm. They earned their Eagles (not me or dad) in great part due to fantastic programs.

[Not Buying It]

Regarding Friends of Scouting - anyone else wonder why a Church that demands 10% of your income and can afford to build multi-billion dollar malls and real estate developments and things sends its members around begging for money for Scouts? Similarly, why is it not paying for all Scouting and youth activities? Why are our young women having fund raising activities to get money for Young Women's Camp? Why are our Scouts selling popcorn and crap? I give them a huge chunk of my paycheck already, they clearly have more money than they know what to do with - why aren't they funding Youth activities to the extent they don't need to try and squeeze us for more money?

It's a sore point with me.

[Rob4Hope]

Regarding Friends of Scouting - anyone else wonder why a Church that demands 10% of your income and can afford to build multi-billion dollar malls and real estate developments and things sends its members around begging for money for Scouts? Similarly, why is it not paying for all Scouting and youth activities? Why are our young women having fund raising activities to get money for Young Women's Camp? Why are our Scouts selling popcorn and crap? I give them a huge chunk of my paycheck already, they clearly have more money than they know what to do with - why aren't they funding Youth activities to the extent they don't need to try and squeeze us for more money?

It's a sore point with me.

Here Here!....

Amen, amen & AMEN!

[blazerb]

Never was a huge fan of scouts. Hated it as a kid, as we had a gun-ho ex-Marine as our troop leader, and I thought he was a fascist in disguise. (Was pretty much on the left even as a kid!!). Hated it even more as a YM leader and in bishoprics, and I have to be honest, not really sad to see it go. Even as I can recognize why some would be sad; I'm sure if it were run properly, it could be good for young men. One of the best stories ever about scouting came as a good friend tried to explain scouts to a German colleague he worked with. After explaining what it was, this German guy said, "Ja, we tried something similar in Germany. It didn't work out so well." Comedy gold.

What I found interesting as I looked on lds.org, is what they are going to replace scouting with, just a bunch of activities that seem so fun. For the love of all that is holy, the fun church of my youth with roadshows, cool activities and the like is being replaced by the Bednarization of theological blahness. God help the young people, no wonder they're leaving in droves.

https://www.lds.org/youth/ymactivities? ... #resources

Take a look at the number one activity under the "physical" category. Cleaning a church building. Every member a janitor!

I lover the term "Bednarization." Church leaders have been slowly but surely removing all the fun and tradition from our activities. A few years ago, our stake decided to participate in a special LDS week at scout camp. It was the most awful week of camp I could imagine. We arrived Saturday. No activities were allowed on Sunday. Teenage boys were told they could only sit and listen to talks and spiritual thoughts all day. Then every night for the rest of the week was taken up with a devotional. The boys weren't having much fun at all. I gave my feedback about the experience, but the same thing happened the next time there was an LDS week at camp.

I know a lot of people had bad experiences in scouting. I would welcome this change if I thought scouting were going to be replaced with something better. However, after reading the Q&A and seeing that "physically strong" is being replaced with "able to clean the church building," I am sure it will be as bad as ever. The weekly basketball game will no longer be scouts.

[Thoughtful]

Friends of scouting is the deal made by the church with BSA. They will pressure members to donate to BSA in exchange for a lower price/ lump sum for charters.

[lostintime]

While certainly not appropriate for this site, the proposed "Merit Badges" over on the exmormon subreddit are absolutely hilarious for someone that doesn't mind a little irreverent humor.

[Rob4Hope]

OK...I have to pipe up.

The whole BSA thing and the LDS church involvement is a point of anger for me. When I was growing up, getting your Eagle was on the same par as being ordained an Elder--it was a BIG DEAL. At one time, it was, at least in the area I was, similar to a mission. "OH, you didn't get your Eagle?"....and the shame and shunning would be turned on.

However, as an adult leader years later in my TBM days (which was years ago I might add), I was frustrated because the "patrol method" never happened, the kids ONLY wanted to play basketball on Wednesday night, and the whole scouting deal was a big joke.

I noticed something back in those days (and I have no real reason to suppose it differs today, but I certainly hope so). The boys--half of them couldn't do any pull-ups at all, or push-ups. It was atrocious about their health. Those boys certainly could goof off on the basketball court, but as far as real health was concerned? And then they would run home with their phones and their keyboards. But, if you denied them a merit-badge which they did nothing to earn, you had angry parents and a bishop who would give them what they wanted.

I lost respect for BSA years ago...and it makes me angry...because I worked my A$$ off for my Eagle. I tried hard!

I think the BSA program has something to offer. I think the church never did it right. It isn't the BSA group that failed, it is the CHURCH!

[MoPag]

For the love of all that is holy, the fun church of my youth with roadshows, cool activities and the like is being replaced by the Bednarization of theological blahness. God help the young people, no wonder they're leaving in droves.

Dear Gods, Please, please let them put Bednar in charge of the new young men's activity program. It would be ever so hilarious!!!

[MoPag]

The other question is once BSA is free of the church constantly handing over them, where will they take the program?

Well, there is some discussion that the church made this decision because there is talk of allowing girls to join the program (making it coed):

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy ... ls-n754541

Some are saying that the church got out now rather than wait and see if this happens. It would look bad if they left after girls were allowed in

Here's a quote from the article:

Leaders of the Boy Scouts of America will take the first tentative steps Thursday toward considering whether to add more opportunities for girls in an organization that has been primarily for boys since it was founded 107 years ago, according to scouting officials.

The subject will be discussed at a meeting of chapter representatives and other leaders at the organization's headquarters in Irving, Texas, the officials said.

An official described the meeting as a chance to hear from the scouting community about whether to move ahead on creating more places for girls to participate.

"A single parent with a boy and a girl wants to be able to take them to the same place at the same time for scouting activities," said one local Scout leader.

Interesting. Usually the sexism in regards to the girls activities is very passive, just underfund them and ignore them. But this brings it to a whole new level. They are actually taking something away from boys to avoid the possibility of the girls having it someday. Wow.

[Give It Time]

Someone over on Reddit made the comment that Monson could not possibly be running the church. Good point.

[Give It Time]

While certainly not appropriate for this site, the proposed "Merit Badges" over on the exmormon subreddit are absolutely hilarious for someone that doesn't mind a little irreverent humor.

Those badges are funny.

I'm really glad both my sons are over eighteen. I'm dubious about what will be next.

[AllieOop]

Someone over on Reddit made the comment that Monson could not possibly be running the church. Good point.

Has he even been seen in public since General Conference?

Remember he was in the hospital and some reported he'd passed away (Dehlin for one) and then it was a false alarm....

[Give It Time]

Someone over on Reddit made the comment that Monson could not possibly be running the church. Good point.

Has he even been seen in public since General Conference?

Remember he was in the hospital and some reported he'd passed away (Dehlin for one) and then it was a false alarm....

It's my understanding he is alive and not doing well. Scouting has bern very important to him. Even though, it's been a long time coming, I can't see Monson's hand in this. Is it possible for the Brethren to seize power of attorney from him? I think the next announcement we might hear might not be girls in scouting, but that Monson has passed.

Kind of like they waited for Perry to pass before they installed the policy.

[AllieOop]

Someone over on Reddit made the comment that Monson could not possibly be running the church. Good point.

Has he even been seen in public since General Conference?

Remember he was in the hospital and some reported he'd passed away (Dehlin for one) and then it was a false alarm....

It's my understanding he is alive and not doing well. Scouting has bern very important to him. Even though, it's been a long time coming, I can't see Monson's hand in this. Is it possible for the Brethren to seize power of attorney from him? I think the next announcement we might hear might not be girls in scouting, but that Monson has passed.

Kind of like they waited for Perry to pass before they installed the policy.

I agree with all that you wrote above. I doubt very much that he is healthy enough to be making any decisions. Someone on another board thinks they probably haven't even told him of this decision because of how much he loved scouting.

How do the leaders next in line feel about the program, I wonder? Who are the ones running things now....hmmmmm...that would be interesting to know!

[Enough]

I give them a huge chunk of my paycheck already, they clearly have more money than they know what to do with - why aren't they funding Youth activities to the extent they don't need to try and squeeze us for more money?

It's a sore point with me.

Me, too. My household donates thousands of dollars every year in tithes and Fast Offerings, and I still have 2 large boxes of rotting potatoes in my cold storage room. (My 16-year-old DD, who isn't planning on attending Girls Camp, was required to sell 4 boxes in a YW fundraiser.). I love funeral potatoes & everything --but my kids are not going to sell stuff door-to-door like this!!

We have managed to give away (and eat) 2 boxes of potatoes, but this is simply a WASTE!

[moksha]

I understand BYU will continue this merit badge.

[2bizE]

Friends of scouting is the deal made by the church with BSA. They will pressure members to donate to BSA in exchange for a lower price/ lump sum for charters.

I hate friends of scouting. All of the money goes to the district. Nothing to the troop.

[2bizE]

I understand BYU will continue this merit badge.

Yes, BYU is superb at telling on roommates for spanking the monkey.

[1smartdodog]

The problem in the church with scouting has always been that the church never let the program function as intended. The church constantly tried to make it adapt to their own structure of what groups the young men fell into. Secondly we tried to make scouting mandatory. Mandatory leaders through church callings, and mandatory participation for young men. It has never worked in the church but in a few areas where the leaders actually wanted to be leaders.

There are many stores of how inept and disorganized LDS troops are when compared with a real troop. It is just in Utah the vast majority of troops are most likely LDS.

So the church might as well get out of the program because they have not really been in it for 50 Years. I think the BSA in the long run will be better without the church. Smaller yes but not beholden to the church to get the money.

[Dravin]

The problem in the church with scouting has always been that the church never let the program function as intended. The church constantly tried to make it adapt to their own structure of what groups the young men fell into. Secondly we tried to make scouting mandatory. Mandatory leaders through church callings, and mandatory participation for young men. It has never worked in the church but in a few areas where the leaders actually wanted to be leaders.

It's interesting looking back, but the entwined nature of the young men's program and scouting actually had me just skipping young men's as often as I could. Those times when I was pressured by the folks into attending just had me sitting in a corner waiting for it to be over, or sometimes created issues like the time I refused to sleep in a snow shelter because I had no interest in some merit badge and was smart enough to know it was going to be a miserable night.