Living to wait for death

[Korihor]

https://www.lds.org/blog/for-any-woman- ... OG_xLIDyL2_

This is one of my biggest criticisms of the LDS church. This article is abhorrent to me, I hate it, it steals joy and purpose from life.

The TL;DR version (IMO) is "it's OK your nothing special in this life. When you die, the afterlife will be awesome because you will be a queen living with your family.

This is such utter bullshit nonsense. The article is geared towards women. So some poor woman is feeling low. She looks nice but isn't super attractive because she wears frumpy garments and never attracts an eye in a nice outfit. She stays at home to take care of the kids and has no career, no life goals, etc. She's feeling low as if she's just another cog in the machine.

What hope can the church provide her? She'll be queen in the next life and be with her family. She can do little kind service to people in her life. That will give her a fulfilling life, wait to die when things will be awesome and just help out as best you can for now.

So what will be so awesome in the next life? She'll be a Queen! Her mom will be a Queen, her sisters and girlfriends will all be Queens! Her neighbor will be a queen, the school teacher will be a Queen, the bank teller will be a Queen, the women business owner will be a Queen, Sister Francis Monson will be a Queen, Mrs Adolf Hitler will be a Queen. They will all be Queens!
What will they be doing? They will be with their families forever!!! How cool is that? Everyone will be doing the same stuff they are now, but they will all have the title of queen. They will make spirit babies. They tend spirit children. They can do little kind service to their Sister Queens and Queen besties.

They will be aware of how much more righteous they are because all the unrighteous non-believers today will be Telestial servants to them.

So don't worry that your life isn't totally awesome now. Your job is just to put your head down, do nice things and wait for the next life where it will be totally different and better doing the same thing - forever!

[Korihor]

What do you want to accomplish in your life? What are your goals and aspirations? If your long-term goal is to enter the celestial kingdom to live with our Heavenly Parents and with loved family members forever, that singular focus will take you farther than you now think is possible. We are promised, “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man [or woman], the things which God hath prepared for them that love him”

What are your goals, dreams aspirations? If you said you want a super cool afterlife - YOU'RE IN LUCK!

It doesn't matter what you could imagine because you'll never see it in this life. Just keep dreaming all your remaining years, that will suffice.

[RubinHighlander]

This is a terribly frustrating thing to read through. The imaginary carrot of the unknown country.

"Vote for me and all your wildest dreams will come true."

Vote for Pedro

[oliver_denom]

This reads like tongue in cheek Marxism.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

[wtfluff]

Honestly, when you get right down to the Nitty-Gritty, glorious rewards in the afterlife are the ONLY thing that mormonism has to offer to ANYONE. (Not just women.)

What do they offer in this life that they can actually follow through on? (Nothing, in my opinion.)



This is why I am constantly preaching that the LDS Corporation CANNOT live up to any of it's promises...

[1smartdodog]

Mormonism will steal your life away if you let it. How many us have made decisions about who we are or what we will be or do based on church influence. I sometimes think of all the hours sitting in church when I could have been doing something I enjoy.

But granted if your life really does suck maybe the thought of a better afterlife has appeal. But hoping for something does not make it so.

[Charlotte]

So, what “extraordinary thing” will you choose to do? Choose something according to your available time and resources. Do not run faster or labor more than you have strength and means … but be diligent” (D&C 10:4). Whether your “work of salvation” is largely in the home at this time in life or your influence extends to a global scale, or somewhere in between, the Lord is pleased with your efforts when you are focused on serving God’s children and the eternal goal of returning to Him as a “new and improved” version of your spiritual self. As President Dieter F. Uchtdorf phrased it so succinctly, “Exaltation is our goal; discipleship is our journey.”

As we go forward in this journey of discipleship, may we each determine to reach out in small and simple ways that bless our families and others in “extraordinary” ways.

I'm not trying to bash the overall idea of hope in an afterlife or rejecting a strictly worldly definition of success, but can we imagine this article being approved for a priesthood audience?

The "time and resources" jumps out at me. Where do women get time in our culture if the pressure is to marry and have children super-young? Where do they get the emotional resources to aspire to much of anything if they're made to feel like nothing without marriage and children?

[Rob4Hope]

The mormon idea of the afterlife is what led me OUT of the church in the first place.

Not all mormon marriages are happy. And I recall the scripture that says you take the same spirit with you in this life into the next.

Men, not just women, are placed on the treadmill, asked to do things that suck their life away. WE can't make friends and give love alone, we have to be "assigned". We are to have big families lest some unborn spirit get neglected. We don't pay off the house, we pay tithing. We don't have our spouse out in the work force helping pay tax AND the house, because we have big families, and she is supposed to be home taking care of the children.

And, if we want some good lovin, we sacrifice that because it is "mundane" and sex is for children, not pleasure.

The idea of going to heaven and having my wife reject me, deferring to authority that was stupid and inept, and working to build a pipe-dream--that is why I cracked. The doctrinal problems came later. I was out LONG before I even knew there was a CES letter.

All the morgbots can go to heaven. Good for them. That is like the LAST place I want to be if it has them and their mentality with them.

[blazerb]

I'm male, but I've been told that death will fix everything. Those words weren't used exactly, but that is what it amounts to. I want enjoy life while I can still enjoy it. I hope these women do as well. There has got to be something better.

[DPRoberts]

So, what “extraordinary thing” will you choose to do? Choose something according to your available time and resources. Do not run faster or labor more than you have strength and means … but be diligent” (D&C 10:4). Whether your “work of salvation” is largely in the home at this time in life or your influence extends to a global scale, or somewhere in between, the Lord is pleased with your efforts when you are focused on serving God’s children and the eternal goal of returning to Him as a “new and improved” version of your spiritual self. As President Dieter F. Uchtdorf phrased it so succinctly, “Exaltation is our goal; discipleship is our journey.”

As we go forward in this journey of discipleship, may we each determine to reach out in small and simple ways that bless our families and others in “extraordinary” ways.

I'm not trying to bash the overall idea of hope in an afterlife or rejecting a strictly worldly definition of success, but can we imagine this article being approved for a priesthood audience?

The "time and resources" jumps out at me. Where do women get time in our culture if the pressure is to marry and have children super-young? Where do they get the emotional resources to aspire to much of anything if they're made to feel like nothing without marriage and children?

I hear you, Charlotte. This is yet another way that the church creates the problem and then peddles itself as the solution. I have seen in my own life how being a SAHM robs some women (certainly not all) of the intellectual and emotional development they might have gained on a different life path. They may reach a point in life where previous aspirations can no longer be pursued. By the time they realize how much they missed and how many dreams are out of reach, all they have left to cling to is the hope of some "reward".

[DPRoberts]

So what will be so awesome in the next life? She'll be a Queen! Her mom will be a Queen, her sisters and girlfriends will all be Queens! Her neighbor will be a queen, the school teacher will be a Queen, the bank teller will be a Queen, the women business owner will be a Queen, Sister Francis Monson will be a Queen, Mrs Adolf Hitler will be a Queen. They will all be Queens!
What will they be doing? They will be with their families forever!!! How cool is that? Everyone will be doing the same stuff they are now, but they will all have the title of queen. They will make spirit babies. They tend spirit children. They can do little kind service to their Sister Queens and Queen besties.
They will be aware of how much more righteous they are because all the unrighteous non-believers today will be Telestial servants to them.

Remember what Syndrome said in The Incredibles? When everyone is 'super', no one will be. So maybe the CK allows the Queens to mingle with the commoners just to remind themselves how special they are

So don't worry that your life isn't totally awesome now. Your job is just to put your head down, do nice things and wait for the next life where it will be totally different and better doing the same thing - forever!

At some point in my life it dawned on me that the CK would be my concept of hell. In Mormonism the ultimate heaven is basically eternal church, except that priesthood power can work real creative magic. Like making the gospel treadmill feel fulfilling thoughout all eternity. Powerful magic indeed. Not unlike making Winston Smith love Big Brother.

OK, the 'celestial harem' idea had some appeal . . .
(Bowing my head and saying the man's prayer:

I am a man
But I can change
If I have to
I guess)

[Give It Time]

It doesn't always apply to just average.

My VTs have told me that I should have tolerated my abusive ex, because things would be made right in the next life.

I told them, I used to tell myself that until I discovered my father killed my mother. I now consider that platitude an immoral one.

That was one of the days they left my house in tears.

[Korihor]

Remember what Syndrome said in The Incredibles? When everyone is 'super', no one will be.



I am a man
But I can change
If I have to
I guess)

That's exactly what I meant - if everyone is a queen, it holds no special value.

Keep your stick on the ice

[redjay]

One of the most poignant things I have read in the last few years was a woman saying that she was middle aged and had never had the chance to get married, she read about JS's polygamy and thought to herself 'I can't even masturbate' - she removed her garments that day and that was it for her.

Reading of that woman's experience really cut me up. The church can result in such a narrow isolated experience for so many, and IMO needlessly.

[Charlotte]

So, what “extraordinary thing” will you choose to do? Choose something according to your available time and resources. Do not run faster or labor more than you have strength and means … but be diligent” (D&C 10:4). Whether your “work of salvation” is largely in the home at this time in life or your influence extends to a global scale, or somewhere in between, the Lord is pleased with your efforts when you are focused on serving God’s children and the eternal goal of returning to Him as a “new and improved” version of your spiritual self. As President Dieter F. Uchtdorf phrased it so succinctly, “Exaltation is our goal; discipleship is our journey.”

As we go forward in this journey of discipleship, may we each determine to reach out in small and simple ways that bless our families and others in “extraordinary” ways.

I'm not trying to bash the overall idea of hope in an afterlife or rejecting a strictly worldly definition of success, but can we imagine this article being approved for a priesthood audience?

The "time and resources" jumps out at me. Where do women get time in our culture if the pressure is to marry and have children super-young? Where do they get the emotional resources to aspire to much of anything if they're made to feel like nothing without marriage and children?

I hear you, Charlotte. This is yet another way that the church creates the problem and then peddles itself as the solution. I have seen in my own life how being a SAHM robs some women (certainly not all) of the intellectual and emotional development they might have gained on a different life path. They may reach a point in life where previous aspirations can no longer be pursued. By the time they realize how much they missed and how many dreams are out of reach, all they have left to cling to is the hope of some "reward".

I'm generalizing from my own experience and observations, but ... I wondered why my husband (at least it seems to me) is more well-rounded, less obsesssed with our children, less wrapped up in ward politics and social scene, etc., and I think it's because he's living a fuller life. He's always had to walk and chew gum and a couple other things at the same time. All his emotional eggs aren't in one basket.

I chose SAHM-hood. I longed for it. And I've loved many things about it, but it's not what I hope for my girls. I'm coming to the conclusion that LDS SAHM-hood is often not a good thing for men, women, or even children.

[Charlotte]

One of the most poignant things I have read in the last few years was a woman saying that she was middle aged and had never had the chance to get married, she read about JS's polygamy and thought to herself 'I can't even masturbate' - she removed her garments that day and that was it for her.

Reading of that woman's experience really cut me up. The church can result in such a narrow isolated experience for so many, and IMO needlessly.

I don't necessarily feel happy (gleeful, like some disgruntled ex-members) when I read something like this, but, yes, it does cut me to the core.

JS's polygamy is a bridge too far for many single women. Especially when they see their leadership and men around them thinking (apparently) nothing of the wasted days of these women. It's okay for Helen Mar Kimball to have been set aside for an undefined, presumably unlimited amount of time - waiting, alone, sexually preserved for whenever her husband-to-dozens will call for her. It's one thing for it to have happened; but seeing people defend it...

[Thoughtful]

I'm not trying to bash the overall idea of hope in an afterlife or rejecting a strictly worldly definition of success, but can we imagine this article being approved for a priesthood audience?

The "time and resources" jumps out at me. Where do women get time in our culture if the pressure is to marry and have children super-young? Where do they get the emotional resources to aspire to much of anything if they're made to feel like nothing without marriage and children?

I hear you, Charlotte. This is yet another way that the church creates the problem and then peddles itself as the solution. I have seen in my own life how being a SAHM robs some women (certainly not all) of the intellectual and emotional development they might have gained on a different life path. They may reach a point in life where previous aspirations can no longer be pursued. By the time they realize how much they missed and how many dreams are out of reach, all they have left to cling to is the hope of some "reward".

I'm generalizing from my own experience and observations, but ... I wondered why my husband (at least it seems to me) is more well-rounded, less obsesssed with our children, less wrapped up in ward politics and social scene, etc., and I think it's because he's living a fuller life. He's always had to walk and chew gum and a couple other things at the same time. All his emotional eggs aren't in one basket.

I chose SAHM-hood. I longed for it. And I've loved many things about it, but it's not what I hope for my girls. I'm coming to the conclusion that LDS SAHM-hood is often not a good thing for men, women, or even children.

I never wanted it, but I was told I wanted it and it was best so often that I went for it.

Years of depression, anxiety, and frustration later, I went back for an advanced degree, got a great job, and its been fantastic for me, neutral for my kids (I think it will be a net positive since my daughters will see career as a real option) and spouseman says it's great too. I'm happier, and the financial pressure is off him (he still makes twice what I do, but he's got more years until his career than I have). He's getting a new truck soon and I'm planning a tropical vacation.

I share as often as I get the opportunity that I learned God wanted me to be happy and that my working has been great for all of us. I pipe up whenever anyone is preaching the ideals of SAHM. It shuts them right up.

[Gatorbait]

The saddest part about this article is not that the author built up the afterlife as something special, but how she managed, from the very beginning of the article, to run herself down by implying that she didn't quite measure up compared to the rest of the overachievers in her life. Pitiful.

The thing is, she is perfect just the way she is, and always has been. We don't need some bozo from a culprit or Sunday school class or anything else to say otherwise, and either did she. We are perfect just the way we are.

Any scripture that tears us down or makes us feel small is complete rubbish. Any promise of any type of glory and grandeur in any afterlife is double rubbish. We need to live for right now. It is all we have. It is all we shall ever have- the present moment.

[document]

We all hopefully had a mentor when we were in our formative years. Mine was a 40-something computer programmer who took me under his wing while I worked my way (as a programmer) through college. Not only did he help me in my career immensely, but he also helped me shape who I am as a person. I had left the church when I was 18 and went back at 21, he helped form me during those three years.

He was a staunch non-vocal atheist and saw this life as all we had. He never talked about atheism or religion, but told me often, "John, if you've always wanted to try something, find a way to do it. You don't want to grow old with a list of things you've never done."

He lived that philosophy, he loved his wife deeply and was one of the most interesting people I've met. He has a million stories and memories, because he just goes and does it. He retired a few years ago and every Tuesday night we hang out now (it has been amazing to reconnect). A few years ago, he realized that he always wanted to learn to play the drums, so at 60 years old, he started taking drum lessons. Now he's a decent drummer, and he started at 60. As he said, "You just need to make time".

I adopted that philosophy during that time when I saw just how happy he was. At 21 I looked at the pipe organ and thought, "hmmm....I've always wanted to play", so I got a key to the church, a bunch of books, a teacher, and started practicing at 4 AM. A few years later I thought, "hmmm...I've always wanted to do a marathon" so I started running and training. There are a lot of things like that in my life. Heck, right now I'm learning classical guitar and Japanese because I've always wanted to. It's thanks to my mentor and his outlook on life.

Interestingly enough, many of my more religious friends (mostly LDS) don't get it. I've actually received CRITICISM for this philosophy I was taught. My attitude was seen as "showing off" or "trying to be different", when really I should be focusing on the end goal. One Mormon friend in particular tried to tell me that this attitude of mine would only lead to destruction, because if I ever thought, "Hmmm...I've always wanted to sleep with that woman" I would just go do it. They didn't understand that pursuit of interests doesn't mean throwing your morals or standards out.

But I get it, when you are Mormon your interest is Mormonism. What you pursue is Mormonism. My good friend (believer) at work actually states this out loud. He said, "When you are Mormon, your hobby is Mormonism". He is filled with dreams, he wants to pursue the guitar, but he cannot because his time is so filled with mindless work. He wants to build custom gaming PCs for friends, but doesn't have enough money (because 10% of his income is given away) to even get started for a workbench. He has also said a few times, "That won't help me get into heaven, I really can't do that".

When Mormonism left my life, I stayed religious. However, I stopped thinking about heaven entirely. While I would ask myself questions about eternal salvation when Mormon, I don't anymore. And something interesting happened, my morality significantly shifted. I found myself spending more time meeting the immediate needs of others and seeking to help others in this life. In other words, I shifted from teaching to working.

Still, my Mormon friends see me as selfish. They see me as foolish. I still live my life in a way that would "get me into heaven" by most Xian standards. Heck, I still read a section of the gospels and a section of the epistles every day. Yet, if I don't obsess over the after life, there is something wrong with me.

I personally believe it is bizarre and destructive practice. It takes life away from people.

[alas]

There is a much ignored scripture that says, "Man is that he might have joy." Now I had a close friend named Joy, and she got a kick out of the idea of "man is that he might have Joy." But seriously, much of Christianity really teaches that this life is about suffering and the more suffering the better, until we have weirdos who wear horse hair shirts and use whips on themselves in an effort to become more righteous. People do not consider that that scripture might mean exactly what it says, let alone meaning that God has given us permission to actively seek joy in this life, that maybe a loving God wants his children happy

The idea of freedom and joy in the afterlife was used to keep the American slaves from rebelling, if you just patiently endure what God gave you, then you will be rewarded in Heaven. It has been used purposely as the "opiate of the masses" to keep people politically down trodden.