NOM

JOSEPH SMITH
Doctrine and Covenants 107:92
Behold, here is wisdom; yea, to be a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet, having all the gifts of God which he bestows upon the head of the church.

HYRUM SMITH

Doctrine and Covenants 124:94,125
And from this time forth I appoint unto him that he may be a prophet, and a seer, and a revelator unto my church, as well as my servant Joseph;

moksha wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:30 am

In the scriptures, those were not institutionalized positions, but rather was a singular rare gift given by God in times of need.

Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 2, pgs.417-18 wrote: I then made a short address, and called upon the several quorums, and all the congregation of Saints, to acknowledge the Presidency as Prophets and Seers, and uphold them by their prayers. They all covenanted to do so, by rising. I then called upon the quorums and congregation of Saints to acknowledge the Twelve Apostles, who were present, as Prophets, Seers, Revelators, and special witnesses to all the nations of the earth, holding the keys of the kingdom, to unlock it, or cause it to be done, among them, and uphold them by their prayers, which they assented to by rising.

I next called upon the quorums and congregation of Saints to acknowledge the presidents of Seventies, who act as their representatives, as Apostles and special witnesses to the nations, to assist the Twelve in opening the Gospel kingdom among all people. and to uphold them by their prayers, which they did by rising. I then called upon the quorums and congregation of Saints to acknowledge the High Council of Kirtland, in all the authority of the Melchisedek Priesthood, and uphold them by their prayers, which they assented to by rising. I then called upon the quorums and congregation of Saints to acknowledge, and uphold by their prayers, the Bishops of Kirtland and Zion, and their counselors, in all the authority of the Aaronic Priesthood, which they did by rising.

I next called upon the quorums and congregation of Saints to acknowledge the High Council of Zion, and uphold them by their prayers, in all the authority of the High Priesthood, which they did by rising. I then called upon the quorums and all the Saints to acknowledge the president of the Elders, and his counselors, and uphold them by their prayers, which they did by rising. The quorums and congregation of Saints were then called upon to acknowledge, and uphold by their prayers, the presidents and counselors, of the Priests, Teachers and Deacons, which they did by rising.

The vote was unanimous in every instance, and I prophesied to all, that inasmuch as they would uphold these men in their several stations, (alluding to the different quorums in the Church), the Lord would bless them; yea, in the name of Christ, the blessings of heaven should be theirs; and when the Lord's anointed go forth to proclaim the word, bearing [p.419] testimony to this generation, if they receive it they shall be blessed; but if not, the judgments of God will follow close upon them, until that city or that house which rejects them, shall be left desolate.

Mosiah 8:13 wrote:13 Now Ammon said unto him: I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift from God. And the things are called interpreters, and no man can look in them except he be commanded, lest he should look for that he ought not and he should perish. And whosoever is commanded to look in them, the same is called seer.

14 And behold, the king of the people who are in the land of Zarahemla is the man that is commanded to do these things, and who has this high gift from God.

15 And the king said that a seer is greater than a prophet.

16 And Ammon said that a seer is a revelator and a prophet also; and a gift which is greater can no man have, except he should possess the power of God, which no man can; yet a man may have great power given him from God.

17 But a seer can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known.

consiglieri wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:19 am

I jumped the gun.

The Sketchbook has Joseph Smith calling the apostles "prophets and seers."

It is the History that adds "revelators" to make it "prophets, seers and revelators."

"Revelators" is not in the original.

Dialogue, Vol.20, No.2, p.55 wrote: McKay died at age ninety-six in January 1970. Joseph Fielding Smith, the senior apostle, was ninety-three. Even the Twelve wondered if an immediate reorganization was appropriate or wise; but when the council met to consider the question, "all agreed it was right to proceed with the reorganization promptly" (Kimball and Kimball 1970, 387)--a reaffirmation of the principle of seniority. At the April 1970 general conference, Harold B. Lee, first counselor, and Spencer W. Kimball, acting president of the Twelve, both spoke on the succession process after the solemn assembly. Kimball explained:
The appointments have long been made, the authority given, the keys delivered.... No running for position, no electioneering, no stump speeches.... People talk about precedent. If it is precedent, it has become such by repetition of the revealed order from the beginning.... [A prophet] must be certain of his divine appointment, of his celestial ordination, and his authority to call to service, to ordain, to pass keys which fit eternal locks (Kimball 1970, 92-94).

Kimball's persuasive defense of apostolic succession was followed by Lee's address to the question, "How is the president of the Church chosen or elected?"
The beginning of the call of one to be President of the Church actually begins when he is called, ordained and set apart to become a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.... All members of the First Presidency and the Twelve are regularly sustained as "prophets, seers and revelators,"... This means that any one of the apostles so, chosen and ordained, could preside over the Church... on one condition, and that being that he was the senior member or the president, of that body. Occasionally the question is asked as to whether or not one other than the senior member of the Twelve could become President. Some thought on this matter would suggest that any other than the senior member could become President of the church only if the Lord reveals to that President of the Twelve that someone other than himself could be selected (Lee 1970, 28).

Lee concluded his sermon by quoting Woodruff's 1887 defense of apostolic succession and praising Joseph Fielding Smith and the significance of his call. Not since the October 1877 general conference had there been such a public explanation and defense of the principles of apostolic succession. The successions of Lee and Kimball produced no modifications of the law of succession.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:25 pm

Not a single one of them has ever done anything that would qualify them for any of those titles. Those titles may be conferred, but they have never been earned.

Corsair wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:42 am

moksha wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:30 am

In the scriptures, those were not institutionalized positions, but rather was a singular rare gift given by God in times of need.

That sounds like the apologetic reasoning given when we express any skepticism over not hearing any prophesying, seeing, or revelating from modern LDS leaders.

oliver_denom wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:34 am

This Dialogue article suggests that the purpose of the title is to ensure the succession process:

Dialogue, Vol.20, No.2, p.55 wrote: McKay died at age ninety-six in January 1970. Joseph Fielding Smith, the senior apostle, was ninety-three. Even the Twelve wondered if an immediate reorganization was appropriate or wise; but when the council met to consider the question, "all agreed it was right to proceed with the reorganization promptly" (Kimball and Kimball 1970, 387)--a reaffirmation of the principle of seniority. At the April 1970 general conference, Harold B. Lee, first counselor, and Spencer W. Kimball, acting president of the Twelve, both spoke on the succession process after the solemn assembly. Kimball explained:
The appointments have long been made, the authority given, the keys delivered.... No running for position, no electioneering, no stump speeches.... People talk about precedent. If it is precedent, it has become such by repetition of the revealed order from the beginning.... [A prophet] must be certain of his divine appointment, of his celestial ordination, and his authority to call to service, to ordain, to pass keys which fit eternal locks (Kimball 1970, 92-94).

Kimball's persuasive defense of apostolic succession was followed by Lee's address to the question, "How is the president of the Church chosen or elected?"
The beginning of the call of one to be President of the Church actually begins when he is called, ordained and set apart to become a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.... All members of the First Presidency and the Twelve are regularly sustained as "prophets, seers and revelators,"... This means that any one of the apostles so, chosen and ordained, could preside over the Church... on one condition, and that being that he was the senior member or the president, of that body. Occasionally the question is asked as to whether or not one other than the senior member of the Twelve could become President. Some thought on this matter would suggest that any other than the senior member could become President of the church only if the Lord reveals to that President of the Twelve that someone other than himself could be selected (Lee 1970, 28).

Lee concluded his sermon by quoting Woodruff's 1887 defense of apostolic succession and praising Joseph Fielding Smith and the significance of his call. Not since the October 1877 general conference had there been such a public explanation and defense of the principles of apostolic succession. The successions of Lee and Kimball produced no modifications of the law of succession.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:59 am

I was taught that the President of the church is THE "PSR."

The Q15 collectively hold all the same keys that the President holds. So the Q15 are collectively, but not individually PSR.