Guilt culture and shame culture

[oliver_denom]

I thought this was fascinating. Todd Christofferson doesn't recognize that the church operates a powerful shame culture, by his own definition. The whole talk is interesting because he's taking the words that people use to criticize the church, redefines them, and then uses the same words to call critics out as hypocrites.

For example, calling critics out for being intolerant of the church's intolerance.

Sometimes those who raise a warning voice are dismissed as judgmental. Paradoxically, however, those who claim truth is relative and moral standards are a matter of personal preference are often the same ones who most harshly criticize people who don’t accept the current norm of “correct thinking.” One writer referred to this as the “shame culture”:

“In a guilt culture you know you are good or bad by what your conscience feels. In a shame culture you know you are good or bad by what your community says about you, by whether it honors or excludes you. … [In the shame culture,] moral life is not built on the continuum of right and wrong; it’s built on the continuum of inclusion and exclusion. …

“… Everybody is perpetually insecure in a moral system based on inclusion and exclusion. There are no permanent standards, just the shifting judgment of the crowd. It is a culture of oversensitivity, overreaction and frequent moral panics, during which everybody feels compelled to go along. …

“The guilt culture could be harsh, but at least you could hate the sin and still love the sinner. The modern shame culture allegedly values inclusion and tolerance, but it can be strangely unmerciful to those who disagree and to those who don’t fit in.”

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... of-warning

[Rob4Hope]

The LDS culture is the most shame based culture I have ever experienced with the only possible exception being the Jehovah Witness culture. I saw a man who was excommunicated from that church: he was literally treated as though he wasn't there--no one looked at him, talked to him, or even noticed him. it was sad.

I'm reminded of the story of Orson Pratt's wife and what Joseph "the prophet" Smith did to her when she refused his sexual wifery overture. He publicly assassinated her character.

And brother Christofferson doesn't recognize that this precedence by "the prophet" hasn't survived? Gees...just go as the LGBT community.

WOW.

[PalmSprings]

My version of the quote as inspired by Rob4hope:

The Real Todd Christifferson wrote:
Sometimes those who raise a warning voice within the church are dismissed as judgmental. Paradoxically, however, those who claim forgiveness is available to all, are the ones who most harshly criticize people who don’t accept the current norm of “correct thinking.” One writer referred to this as the “Mormon shame culture”:

“In a guilt culture you know you are good or bad by what your bishop feels. In a shame culture you know you are good or bad by what your ward says about you, by whether it honors or excludes you. … [In the Mormon shame culture,] Eternal life is not built on the continuum of right and wrong; it’s built on the continuum of inclusion and exclusion. …

“… Everybody is perpetually insecure in a Mormon moral system based on inclusion and exclusion. There are no permanent standards, just the shifting judgment of the saints. It is a culture of oversensitivity, overreaction and frequent moral panics, during which everybody feels compelled to go along. …

“The guilt culture could be harsh, but at least you could hate the sin and still love the sinner. The modern Mormon culture allegedly values inclusion and tolerance, but it can be strangely unmerciful to those who disagree and to those who don’t fit in.”

Brilliant quote hahahah