Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

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Emower
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Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Emower » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:34 am

Thinking this morning about the huge tool factor of some of the apostles and 70's Who is the biggest one?
  • Joseph Fielding Smith is pretty high on the list for me. He edited so much crap out just to help the church deal with its checkered past.
  • Bruce R Mckonkie might be on the list for me, although he went out on a limb with his own opinions, which is admirable. They were crappy opinions, but he was willing to put them out there.
  • Bednar. He has no opinions of his own, he is a complete yes man, company hack, ladder climber, spineless weasel.
  • Oaks. The epitome of a man who was willing to sell what he stood for for an organization that acted in direct conflict with his professed values.
Who is the ultimate tool in your opinion? I think there can be a different list for me as to who I dislike the most, (its a toss up between Bednar, Fielding, and Packer) but what about the ultimate tool? Lets keep the list post-Wilford Woodruff for my curiosities sake.

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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by wtfluff » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:44 am

I'll agree with your last two picks: Bednar and Oaks.

Which is the biggest tool? It's a tossup, though Bednar will have the longest tenure of the two, so more time to become and even bigger TOOL.
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Corsair
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Corsair » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:07 am

Ezra Taft Benson is bound to come up eventually due to a variety of docmented incidents around his views. I think he was actually a pretty good administrator when heserved as Secretary of Agriculture in the Eisenhower administration. But he did take his religion seriously and followed many distressing doctrinal paths to their inevitable reductio ad absurdum.

The ironic opnion I have on this point is that I secretly hope the LDS church doubles down on promoting more hardcore conservatives into the ranks of the apostles. I was actually disappointed that Boyd Packer never got his chance to be prophet because I would have loved to have seen what he might do. Monson isn't a bad guy. He's doctrinally shallow, but he maintained the "kindly bishop" persona for decades and I can't fault him for promoting basic Christian charity. But he is functionally, if not officially, out of power.

I would love to see Nelson, Oaks, or Holland add some new virtue signalling commandments once they show up in the top spot. This my Machiavellian personality wanting the thumbscrews of LDS culture to tighten up and help wife and family members better understand my own faith transtion. Besides, it would be endlessly entertaining to to have something new to rebel against.

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Sheamus Moore
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Sheamus Moore » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:26 am

All good contenders. Personally, I'd have to give S.W. Kimball a spot on the list for the quantum levels of shame and guilt he instilled in many a teenage psyche during his reign.

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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Korihor » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:30 am

D. All of the above

Is this a valid answer?

Holland ranks high on my list. I don't know why exactly but that guy rubs me raw. He just refuses to give an inch and keeps spewing hate and nonsense but has a really big fan base. He seems to gloat in hero worship more than the average GA. Dude's an a-hole.

Christensen is a giant tool. He's willing to fall on the sword simply because he's told to. He's the embodiment of a Apostolic Spiritual Zombie. Technically speaking, Monson appears to be much closer to a physical zombie at this point.
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Not Buying It
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Not Buying It » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:44 am

Obviously, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. No one can top the crap those two pulled.

In modern times? This will be controversial, but I'm going with President Dieter F. Ucthdorf. Why you ask? Elders Bednar, Oaks, Holland, Rasband and others are obviously obnoxious and full of themselves. You know what you are getting with them. What you see is what you get. But President Ucthdorf is that charming friend who wins your trust but is secretly stabbing you in the back. He's got plenty of NOMs convinced that if he became Prophet the Church would be come a warmer, friendlier place for us. But don't kid yourself, he is and always has been a company man through and through, he's just more clever and charismatic than the rest. Without their positions to prop them up, no one would give the time of day to the rest of them. But President Uchtdorf is a charmer, and in my book that makes him the more dangerous. He isn't your friend, Nommies.
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by MoPag » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:33 am

Korihor wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:30 am
Christensen is a giant tool. He's willing to fall on the sword simply because he's told to. He's the embodiment of a Apostolic Spiritual Zombie.
OMG yes! I still think he is really trying for a spot in Nelson's FP. He did that GC talk about how God's love is conditional and that was something Nelson has been pushing before. And his last GC talk was a hot, hot mess. And there is just something abut him too. Like the way he talks. He reminds of a clueless outside-hire that comes into the company and is trying to gain favor by putting everyone else down. It's like..."b!tch please..." :roll:
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:05 pm

Historically, the above posters have nailed it, I'll just add George A Smith. All the Church history stories slamming "apostates" like Thomas B Marsh and the like come from him. Bit of a jerk.

Of the modern dudes, I've said it before, not a fan of Rasband. Butt-kissing corporate men are the bane of my existence, and he personifies what one is. Just listening to him annoys the heck out of me.
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MoPag
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by MoPag » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:30 pm

Emower wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:34 am
  • Bednar. He has no opinions of his own, he is a complete yes man, company hack, ladder climber, spineless weasel.
He is scary. I was at BYU-I when he was president. He hero-worshiped the brethren. He would go on and on about how they are special witnesses of Jesus Christ and blah, blah, blah. And then he always talk about what is was like to be in their presence.

Now that he is one of them, I think he has reached a whole new level of zealot. The more recent stories of him-the one where he yelled at a choir for not standing up when he stood up, or the one where he told some random sister that whatever he said was scripture-so crazy. He is a "yes man" and he is taking orders from his own crazy a$$ self thinking it's really God.
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believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Hagoth » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:53 pm

Sheamus Moore wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:26 am
All good contenders. Personally, I'd have to give S.W. Kimball a spot on the list for the quantum levels of shame and guilt he instilled in many a teenage psyche during his reign.
Not to mention the racism he inflicted on the "Lamanites." BKP sits high in my hierarchy of tools.
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Hagoth
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Hagoth » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:56 pm

MoPag wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:30 pm
. The more recent stories of him-the one where he yelled at a choir for not standing up when he stood up, or the one where he told some random sister that whatever he said was scripture-so crazy. He is a "yes man" and he is taking orders from his own crazy a$$ self thinking it's really God.
Don't forget the one where he revoked his apostolic blessing from the kids at a youth fireside because he didn't think they were sufficiently blown away by his presence.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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deacon blues
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by deacon blues » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:18 pm

I've heard those stories about Elder Bernard, but they sound more like rumors than documented stories. Is there a way to verify them?
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:25 pm

Quenton L Crook because in his former life he really was a Crook as the lawyer drafting the contracts that set himself up as president of California Healthcare Systems when they took over the Marin hospital. And he just seems like a slimey guy when he talks.

Gary Giacomini, then a county supervisor, called it "the biggest theft of public property in Marin's history."

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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Spicy McHaggis » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:37 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:18 pm
I've heard those stories about Elder Bernard, but they sound more like rumors than documented stories. Is there a way to verify them?
Someone posted on this board many years ago about a fireside with Bednar before he was an apostle. He was approachable and had a Q&A after the fireside. Anyone could ask him anything.
Fast forward to him being a Apostle and everyone is supposed to stand when he enters the room.

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Emower
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Emower » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:48 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:18 pm
I've heard those stories about Elder Bernard, but they sound more like rumors than documented stories. Is there a way to verify them?
Not a great way no. My family has personal experience with him. He was in my aunts ward in rexburg while president before the fancy neighborhood got built for all the university muckitty mucks. He wasn't there a lot, but one Sunday he was attending when my cousin was doing a special musical number with a guitar. He got up and stopped the number, told her to sit down and proceeded to lecture on how sacrament meetings are supposed to look and that guitars do not feature in. She was mortified and being in a pretty fragile emotional state left and never has come back.

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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Anon70 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:29 pm

Emower wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:48 pm
deacon blues wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:18 pm
I've heard those stories about Elder Bernard, but they sound more like rumors than documented stories. Is there a way to verify them?
Not a great way no. My family has personal experience with him. He was in my aunts ward in rexburg while president before the fancy neighborhood got built for all the university muckitty mucks. He wasn't there a lot, but one Sunday he was attending when my cousin was doing a special musical number with a guitar. He got up and stopped the number, told her to sit down and proceeded to lecture on how sacrament meetings are supposed to look and that guitars do not feature in. She was mortified and being in a pretty fragile emotional state left and never has come back.
This makes me so angry. Vanilla. Conformity. Control. And they wonder why people find it boring and uninspiring.

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Culper Jr.
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Culper Jr. » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:53 am

Bednar - he pretty much embodies everything I loathe about the church. You really can't have a conversation like this without his name coming up.

Rasband - what a suck up. At the GC where he and the 2 others were called, and where they had the perfect opportunity to add some diversity to the quorum... as he gave his "look at meeee" self congratulatory talk all I could think was - seriously?!? This is the best they could do?

Loren C. Dunn - he was the 70 over our mission and was responsible for a lot of those skeevy baptism tactics you hear about. He took our mission rules to a new level of cultish.

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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by MoPag » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:08 am

Spicy McHaggis wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:37 pm
deacon blues wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:18 pm
I've heard those stories about Elder Bernard, but they sound more like rumors than documented stories. Is there a way to verify them?
Someone posted on this board many years ago about a fireside with Bednar before he was an apostle. He was approachable and had a Q&A after the fireside. Anyone could ask him anything.
Fast forward to him being a Apostle and everyone is supposed to stand when he enters the room.
That might have been me. Bednar would have "special" family home evenings at BYUI where a couple FHE groups would meet with him and Sis Badnar and it was kind of like a Q and A session. But he would spend most of the time telling us the type of questions we should be asking. And then he would answer the questions we were supposed to have asked. One of them went something like: "President Bednar, you get to spend time with the Prophet and Apostles, what have you learned from being in their presence?" And then he would go on and on about what it means to be an apostle, and how they are special witnesses of Jesus Christ, and so when you are with an apostle you are in the presence of someone who has had Christ personally whiteness to them. Blah Blah.

The other stories are ones I've heard here, but they all sound like him.

During devotional he would start by raising his scriptures over his head and we all had to do the same thing. Pull up one of his devotional addresses, it might be on there. He was really big about everyone LITERALY following his example. That is what makes be believe the story about him yelling at the choir when they didn't stand up for him

I also remember him explaining the "unwritten order of things" He basically said that if you are supposed to be giving a talk but a GA or 70 makes a surprise visit, you need to just share your testimony and let the visiting GA have an opportunity to speak. He said the people in the congregation have a right to be spiritually fed by the greatest priesthood holder. :roll:
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believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by Korihor » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:51 am

TL;DR

The upper management is a collection of tools that Norm Abram would envy.
Last edited by Korihor on Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LaMachina
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Re: Who is the biggest tool/who do you dislike the most?

Post by LaMachina » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:28 am

I'm kinda amazed at the language used on this forum these days. Trust me, I'm no prude when it comes to dropping four-letter bombs but I've been censored on here before for saying "mental illness is a bitch".

I can get such insightful commentary as "he's an asshole" or "f()ck them all" anywhere on the interwebs. I get it, people are pissed but I expect more from this place.

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