NOM

OK....I'll bite.

Someone said that TSM basically wears a mask when in public, but when alone and in private settings is mean and hostile....

Whats the scoop?

The rumors originate from former church employees working for the COB, mostly in food services and catering. Things like how he would lambast employees for messing up his orders. I understand he had to have a glass of milk at a certain temperature at a certain time or you might get yelled at or fired. It's all hearsay. Maybe it happened as they tell it or maybe they are just bitter ex employees. Who knows.

http://www.mindonfire.com/2008/11/23/th ... nt-page-1/

It seems that you only hear two types of stories about the Q15, either they're walking on water or the worst type of bastard. Where are all the stories about them just being normal, everyday people, which is what they are?

For me, the important thing is it doesn't matter whether they are a saint or a bastard because the church isn't a democracy. The president of the church could be a confirmed sociopath and it wouldn't matter because it's not his personality that counts but his active pulse and the ceremony surrounding his selection. Stories about their goodness or badness doesn't do anything except provide unfounded reasons for an existing testimony or unfounded confirmation for leaving.

They're just people. Sometimes people get pissy. Sometimes people get an inflated ego and act like asses. It doesn't mean anything other than the fact that they are human beings. If we learn anything from stories like this, then it should be that human beings need protections and policies in place to make sure they don't become monsters.

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:32 pm

OK....I'll bite.

Someone said that TSM basically wears a mask when in public, but when alone and in private settings is mean and hostile....

Whats the scoop?

As others have mentioned: Plenty of hearsay and anecdotes. I've met the guy a few times in passing, he was always cordial in the hallway or the elevator, I've also got second-hand accounts of his meanness and hostility.

OK... I'll bite: If I may ask, what's your seemingly sudden interest in the personal lives of LDS-Inc. leadership Rob4? First Susan Bednar and her husband, and now Monson? What gives?

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:22 pm

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:32 pm

OK....I'll bite.

Someone said that TSM basically wears a mask when in public, but when alone and in private settings is mean and hostile....

Whats the scoop?

As others have mentioned: Plenty of hearsay and anecdotes. I've met the guy a few times in passing, he was always cordial in the hallway or the elevator, I've also got second-hand accounts of his meanness and hostility.

OK... I'll bite: If I may ask, what's your seemingly sudden interest in the personal lives of LDS-Inc. leadership Rob4? First Susan Bednar and her husband, and now Monson? What gives?

It's the new 2018 Sunday school manual!

Rob, I'm the person who said that. This is the third thread where I will be retracting, today.

First of all, prior to the rumors of his having Alzheimer's (more than three or more years ago), I did read anecdotes by people who had had run-ins with him. Also, just little comments in his talks or talks by others, here and there, there would be a small comment about his being imperious or unbending and uncompromising or being able to lower the boom.

Let me explain me and my red flags, again. There are certain red flags that indicate a person is an abuser. If I come across a red flag, one time, they are probably having a bad day. A second time, I start to get concerned. A third time and I consider it a pattern. I used to stop there, but I don't, anymore, because I came across a person who was truly clueless as to their impact, so I throw in there asking them, if possible, what was behind this behavior.

It's been mostly in comments where people have been describing Monson as tough and worthy of his office. The person telling the story may think they are paying him a compliment, but my experiences has me viewing these situations otherwise. Yes, it could be construed to be taking offense, but I've learned that ignoring these behaviors is not a smart thing to do. Have I met Monson? No. Have I seen these things personally? No. At best, these stories are second-hand and complete hearsay.

The man does have a lot on his plate, lives in a fishbowl and under a microscope. What I'm saying is if the conditions were normal and I knew him, I probably would have seen him do one red flag behavior, because, honestly, we all have our moments but the fishbowl factor and microscope factor are bringing to my awareness incidents I might not have seen and, therefore, shouldn't count. In fact, I shouldn't even be counting that fictitious first one.

So, I'm with cutting the man some slack. I should not have said what I did about him.

Has TSM ever lost his cool? Probably. He's human and I wouldn't blame him or dethrone him from prophet status for that.

Dude had a bad day and they couldn't even get his milk right. The one thing he was looking forward too, a nice tall cold glass of milk. That was the last straw. Some poor cafeteria worker caught his ire and thought that could never be a prophet of God, yelling over a glass of milk.

Stuff like this can be easily twisted, misinterpreted or aggrandized. Every puts their best foot forward in public. His life was under the microscope, I can look past crying over spilled milk occasionally.

I think an underlying theme from this discussion is how church leaders act toward rank and file members. These are leaders who were successful generally in business. They grew in power. Now, they don't have to worry about making their house payment or Ensuring projects meet deadline. They are catered to with everything, including milk at a certain time and temperature. They lose connection to the real world and are pampered. Their lives become all about them and their needs being met. Then when something isn't just right they get cranky. Their hired or missionary volunteer servants see this and get annoyed over time.

Looks like some are asking why this interest all of the sudden?....not really a new interest. But I have a few reasons:

1. I'm just curious. The LDS church teaches D&C 121, and then often discounts it depending on the difference between the power of the "head" as opposed to the lowliness of the "feet" (so to speak). Persuasion is not used very often with regards to "policy", and its interesting to me.

2. It sais in the BoM that unless the leader is walking a Godly walk themselves, they shouldn't be followed. So, if these guys are wearing a mask covering who they really are inside, then that is a violation. This also interests me.

3. Are the leaders "Shame Based"?. This is probably the only one that is more than just interest--for a long time I've tried to understand these guys more from a psychological viewpoint. I am aware of some things that fuel this:

-- I have a first hand account of a deceased member of the 70 Presidency (a prominent man actually-who I will not name). His daughter said: "I never heard my father say he was sorry,...ever. He did say once he could have handled something better...." This is interesting to me, because the inability to say you are sorry is one of the text-book signs of being shame based.

-- Quotes from Dallin Oaks about the church never saying its sorry. Examples over and beyond things like the Priesthood Ban would be the electric shock treatment that guys like SWK advocated, and the church (Oaks again) calling things like when gays were counseled to FORCE themselves into heterosexual marriages as being nothing more than "abnormalities" (I think he used that word). This "shock therapy" and forcing gay heterosexual marriage RUINED PEOPLES LIVES! And no apology? The church has institutionalized "shame based" living!

Question: What if the German government said, speaking about the Holocaust, "Well, it was just something that happened. We've corrected those abnormalities." ...... but, buy all means, no saying "I'm sorry"....doesn't deserve that, right?

Guys, I happen to think the personal lives of these guys is VERY VERY relevant! Their very theology demands they walk a godly lifestyle. I respect those of you who want to give them a pass--that is OK. I'm curious (that is a problem I have....), but not willing to give them a pass at all. I think they are self absorbed evil men. They are blind (willingly) to their own hypocrisy. It amazes me.

OK...now something else. When it all comes down to it, my looking into these things is more a hobby now than anything else. I am not in the LDS faith any more; but I DO enjoy the banter on this site, and I enjoy the discovery that continues to happen. You think you finally know most of what there is with this massive coverup, and all of the sudden...BAM!...something else shows up, and you once again are amazed.

Occasionally I find myself with an itch topic...something I just gotta scratch a little. At the moment, I wonder about the psychology of these guys: how can they perpetuate such a massive lie (and there is lying going on here) and hold it together themselves? In my mind, I think that some of this delusion would break out in other places--which is why I am curious about their personal interactions.

But mostly, curiosity is playing in on this one.

I have been privy to a couple of first-hand accounts that suggest that he's not the sweetest man to grace the halls of the COB, but I don't think I need to give details. But then, I don't have any illusions that he is anything but a corporate businessman. But then again, having never encountered a real prophet I have no idea how they're supposed to act.

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:31 am

I have been privy to a couple of first-hand accounts that suggest that he's not the sweetest man to grace the halls of the COB, but I don't think I need to give details. But then, I don't have any illusions that he is anything but a corporate businessman. But then again, having never encountered a real prophet I have no idea how they're supposed to act.

Without you providing details, can I ask a general question: did the encounters you know about involve someone else cowering or having their esteem damaged as a result?

The only story I have is very vague. 25 years ago, when I was a student at BYU, one of my friends did a summer internship at the COB. She told me one day that she had been in the elevator and that Monson had gotten on as well. In the time it took to reach the ground floor, she said that her belief in the church was pretty much shattered.

I think I was too shocked at the time to ask for details. She just said there's no way he was called by God.

RS Teacher wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:57 pm

The only story I have is very vague. 25 years ago, when I was a student at BYU, one of my friends did a summer internship at the COB. She told me one day that she had been in the elevator and that Monson had gotten on as well. In the time it took to reach the ground floor, she said that her belief in the church was pretty much shattered.

I think I was too shocked at the time to ask for details. She just said there's no way he was called by God.

I hate it when people fart in the elevator!

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:13 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:31 am

I have been privy to a couple of first-hand accounts that suggest that he's not the sweetest man to grace the halls of the COB, but I don't think I need to give details. But then, I don't have any illusions that he is anything but a corporate businessman. But then again, having never encountered a real prophet I have no idea how they're supposed to act.

Without you providing details, can I ask a general question: did the encounters you know about involve someone else cowering or having their esteem damaged as a result?

Yes, one was a church employee and the other was an admiring teenage girl.

They are just men.

The light of christ shines through them when the public relations department spins it just right. After all, image is perception....

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:09 am

But mostly, curiosity is playing in on this one.

I'm becoming more interested in them too.

Think about the way we were taught to reverence the Q15 when we were TBMs. We were taught that they were prophets, seers and revelators. They speak to God and for God. And if we should stray from their teachings it would result in our own peril. Our feelings towards where were awe, respect and reverence.

Then we hit our faith crisis/transitions. We realized they are full of BS. And our lives are, to some degree, messed up because we believed in their BS. Now we are feeling anger, betrayal, and despair. I think it is natural that we would want to vilify them even more by delving into their personal lives and finding more proof that they are as horrible as our post FC minds see them.

Maybe a healthier way to deal with the GAs is to recognize their humanity by learning more about them. But we still need to hold them accountable for the things they say. After all, our TBM friends and family think they speak for God.

MoPag wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:57 am

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:09 am

But mostly, curiosity is playing in on this one.

I'm becoming more interested in them too.

Think about the way we were taught to reverence the Q15 when we were TBMs. We were taught that they were prophets, seers and revelators. They speak to God and for God. And if we should stray from their teachings it would result in our own peril. Our feelings towards where were awe, respect and reverence.

Then we hit our faith crisis/transitions. We realized they are full of BS. And our lives are, to some degree, messed up because we believed in their BS. Now we are feeling anger, betrayal, and despair. I think it is natural that we would want to vilify them even more by delving into their personal lives and finding more proof that they are as horrible as our post FC minds see them.

Maybe a healthier way to deal with the GAs is to recognize their humanity by learning more about them. But we still need to hold them accountable for the things they say. After all, our TBM friends and family think they speak for God.

Isn't the spin fascinating?.....these guys have a massive image management team backing them--probably coaching how they should talk, dress, look, etc. Its crazy. Its part of smoke and mirrors.....