The token gay guy

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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The token gay guy

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:08 pm

It could very well be that I'm filtering the news based on my own disaffection, but gosh the recent Todd Christofferson gay brother interviews sure seem like very intentional propaganda effort. Like poor D. Todd and his brother have to bat cleanup for the church over the gay issue. If Todd's brother is indeed sincere and happy with his decision to return, that's fine with me, but the constant media posturing just feels icky. Am I crazy?

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46175330&nid=1016

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Corsair
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Re: The token gay guy

Post by Corsair » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:36 pm

This was a really convenient set of circumstances for the LDS church.
  • Gay brother of an apostle
  • Believing family was not jerks to him personally
  • Elderly, so no one is asking if he will get married to a woman at this point
  • While he was married to a partner, they broke up and he's back in the fold
  • Still gay, but living a celibate lifestyle
There are loads of questions that could and should be asked. I hope that John Dehlin will interview him soon and we could get some of these out of the way. Is this a reasonable model for other Gay Mormons? Live a big gay lifestyle then divorce and come back to the fold once you are elligible for Social Security? Is divorce required? Is living celibate a realistic plan for a perfectly faithful Gay Mormon? Does he have any take on LDS youth suicides? Does he expect to be straight in the next world? Does his brother ever claim any special connection to God? (ie., has he seen Jesus?) What is his take on historical and doctrinal issues?

Assuming the interview takes place, it should be interesting. I expect that the final answers from Brother Christofferson is something like:
Corsair is entirely responsible for this completely fabricated guess about Brother Christofferson's future interview and wrote:"I have a testimony of the church that I find compelling. The issues don't really bother me. Gay suicides are unfortunate and maybe the church could do more. My apostle brother is a nice guy but has not mentioned meeting Jesus. Being celibate is probably tough, but I have a testimony. I don't know what God has for me in the next life."
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Hagoth
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Re: The token gay guy

Post by Hagoth » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:46 pm

I would be fine with the message is that it's OK to do exactly what this guy did and that your family should love you and accept everything about your lifestyle, whether or not you come back, and that if you do that's just icing on the cake. Because that's kind of what they're trying to imply, even thought the underlying message is pretty much the exact opposite: that young LGBT people should go directly to the end and skip the entire lifetime in between.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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alas
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Re: The token gay guy

Post by alas » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:06 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:08 pm
It could very well be that I'm filtering the news based on my own disaffection, but gosh the recent Todd Christofferson gay brother interviews sure seem like very intentional propaganda effort. Like poor D. Todd and his brother have to bat cleanup for the church over the gay issue. If Todd's brother is indeed sincere and happy with his decision to return, that's fine with me, but the constant media posturing just feels icky. Am I crazy?

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46175330&nid=1016
No, you are not crazy. It really bothers me that the church/media is giving this dude so much attention. There are just several reasons why he should not be held up as an example for all to follow.

It is just one guy, and in many way, he isn't average. First off as an apostle's brother he is going to be accepted and loved more in the church than 99% of gays. Second, I don't know why he was willing to divorce his husband, but I think that was a given and so in deciding what to do with his life, might as well go back to church and pretend to repent. Maybe he didn't really love the guy. Maybe the relationship went sour. Maybe at his age he just decided it isn't that long he will be alone and celebrate. But I do not believe he gave up the man he loved to repent and go back to church. But it is just different to be 70ish and decide to live alone the rest of your life than it is at 20 or 30. He is more like the old widows and widowers who decide to spend their remaining years alone than he is like a young gay guy.

So, we have one gay guy come back and TBMs get all excited, but pretend not to notice the hundreds who are leaving the church.

This is like celebrating the one sheep who is found while pushing the 99 off a cliff.

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RubinHighlander
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Re: The token gay guy

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:29 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:08 pm
It could very well be that I'm filtering the news based on my own disaffection, but gosh the recent Todd Christofferson gay brother interviews sure seem like very intentional propaganda effort. Like poor D. Todd and his brother have to bat cleanup for the church over the gay issue. If Todd's brother is indeed sincere and happy with his decision to return, that's fine with me, but the constant media posturing just feels icky. Am I crazy?

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46175330&nid=1016
Does not surprise me in the least. Think about how few poster kids they have for anyone coming back into the fold, let alone a relative of someone this high on the payroll. Just like flies on a fresh pile of dog crap, this was the miracle they've been waiting for and will try to turn it into a formula for all other gay Mormons to follow. Think of the social pressure on this guy now! Token indeed in my book!
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Hermey
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Re: The token gay guy

Post by Hermey » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:15 pm

I say, follow the money. Although I don't think we'll ever really know who, what, or how, or how much. Just sayin'.

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: The token gay guy

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:16 am

I would really like to hear an interview with his former partner. Now that might be enlightening.

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oliblish
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Re: The token gay guy

Post by oliblish » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:23 pm

He hasn't been interviewed with John Dehlin, but there are several interview podcasts out there. I would like to see him go on Mormon Stories, but I kind of doubt we will see that.

http://www.athoughtfulfaith.org/214-tha ... tofferson/

http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/conversa ... stofferson

I have not listened to these two below but found them just now. It looks like there is a new mormon-themed podcast from the SL Tribune that I have not heard of before (MormonLand)

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-cu ... e/51567735

https://soundcloud.com/mormonland/mormo ... on-and-gay
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Gatorbait
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Re: The token gay guy

Post by Gatorbait » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:51 am

Like some of the rest of you, when I heard about Tom Cristofferson, and heard his story I had a deep respect for him. Seemed like a genuine nice guy and I was happy that he had found his middle ground and happiness in being gay and accepting it. At the time I first heard of him, though I'm not certain, I think he was still with his beloved. (Okay to call gay partners beloved? I think so....) Anyway, I thought he would help change things for the better in the LDS church.

When I saw him promoting his new book, which was done mostly to the LDS audience, I was a bit dissipointed. Thought, here we go again, the guys sells out the gays so he can make a buck on his book. But then I caught myself and reminded myself that I had not earned the right to judge him.

The resentment that I feel towards the LDS church for wrapping this story up with a gushy happy ending is still with me though. Smacks of a cheap PR move and I dislike it.
"Let no man count himself righteous who permits a wrong he could avert". N.N. Riddell

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