The Biggest Damage done...

[Rob4Hope]

I remember years ago--probably about 15 to be accurate--I finished reading the "Miracle of Forgiveness" for the second time. I was badly stung by it, and went through one of the darkest times of my life. I was working through things in my marriage (which was on its death bed and had been for years) and also trying to reconcile a belief system that had all but failed me as well. I tried multiple times to visit with my bishop. I begged him: "Please meet with me! I don't know what to believe." After 14 missed appointments where he said we would meet, or he would call--after 14 missed appointments where he didn't show, I gave up trying.

At this time I grappled with self worth. I was being taught I was "worth less" than my bishop's time, "worth less" than his effort,..I was "worthless". I hit rock bottom. I had also been taught through a pretty solid chain of events that this man, this bishop, was "A man of God". Consequently, the reason this bishop wouldn't meet with me was because GOD wouldn't. After all, the bishop did what God wanted...right?

I later read a book by David Bednar where he talked about Christ always looking outside of himself, and how could we do that for ourselves? Bednar told about a JST where, after Jesus was fasting for a long time, angles came to him--but what the JST said was Jesus actually sent those angels to John the Baptist who was in prison at the time. Bednar's point was that even though Jesus probably needed the help more than John, Jesus sent the help to John and didn't take it for himself.

The message was clear: ALWAYS look outside of yourself to benefit others, and never consider your own needs. I mean this really was the message of this book IMHO. This is what he said--what I believe he was saying. It was a message about not being selfish--but Bednar pushed the idea to an extreme, or so it seemed to me. And, to be quite frank (and I mean this in all sincerity), I felt like some of the messages he had in this book, if applied to real life, would result in abuse happening. It was so skewed, so one sided in its emphasis, it negated even a semblance of balance.

I was stung again--this time by David Bednar's book.

I remember having a hypothetical thought, using Bednar's reasoning and logic in the book. Suppose, for example, my son had made a promise to his aged grandfather that he would mow his lawn. Suppose my son then had a moderately serious accident on his skateboard, and had torn his knee up with a serious cash that would require stitches. And suppose he had a nasty bump on his head, was throwing up over it as well, indicating a possible concussion.

As my son's father, what is my responsibility now?

Well, according to Bednar, if I want to teach my son about the real Jesus, I should help my son look outside of himself. So even though my son's injuries are painful and might have complications, the best thing is for my son to think outside of himself and deny his immediate needs, and go take care of his responsibility to his grandfather. Right?

This seems luducrous...utterly. I see that. I know that. But this is actually inline with the things Bednar taught and how he taught it in this book. Bednar made a point of saying that in every case, even though Jesus needed the help more, he looked outside of himself and took care of others needs before his own.

In this case, would my son not be taking care of his grandfather's needs ahead of his own?

Seems consistent to me...right?

So this brings me to the point of this thread. The biggest damage done to me through LDS teaching, particularly from men like SWK, BRM, BKP and now DAB, is that the very balance of right vs wrong, wise vs foolish has been twisted and skewed, even broken.

We hear things like "Thou shalt not commit adultry"....but we must not apply those principles to JS because he was "the prohet".

We hear things like "Thou shalt not kill"...but we must not apply those principles to BY because he was "the prophet".

We hear things like "Thou shalt not bear false witness"...but we must not apply those principles to GBH because he was "the prophet".

We hear things like baptism at 8 years old...but we must not apply those principles to gay family children because of "the policy"...

And we hear things about "Stay in the Boat"...when all I am hearing is "shut up and drink the coolaid".

The very lines between moral character, right vs wrong, have been damaged in me. This is the biggest damage done.

[Gatorbait]

Wow, you have been through a lot noble one. I see you have a lot of courage, which is good.

Never had any use for Pres. Kimball's book. It is just a story- his story- but that does not make it true. Same with Bednar, and frankly the same with anyone. We each have a story to tell, and if it is true, it will stand forever. If it is not true, it will eventually be exposed.

We can still like Pres. Kimball, or Bednar (who I have a difficult time liking, I'll admit) but we sure don't have to believe their stories.

Good luck, and thanks for the thoughtful post, which I enjoyed.

[Palerider]

I remember years ago--probably about 15 to be accurate--I finished reading the "Miracle of Forgiveness" for the second time. I was badly stung by it, and went through one of the darkest times of my life. I was working through things in my marriage (which was on its death bed and had been for years) and also trying to reconcile a belief system that had all but failed me as well. I tried multiple times to visit with my bishop. I begged him: "Please meet with me! I don't know what to believe." After 14 missed appointments where he said we would meet, or he would call--after 14 missed appointments where he didn't show, I gave up trying.

At this time I grappled with self worth. I was being taught I was "worth less" than my bishop's time, "worth less" than his effort,..I was "worthless". I hit rock bottom. I had also been taught through a pretty solid chain of events that this man, this bishop, was "A man of God". Consequently, the reason this bishop wouldn't meet with me was because GOD wouldn't. After all, the bishop did what God wanted...right?

I later read a book by David Bednar where he talked about Christ always looking outside of himself, and how could we do that for ourselves? Bednar told about a JST where, after Jesus was fasting for a long time, angles came to him--but what the JST said was Jesus actually sent those angels to John the Baptist who was in prison at the time. Bednar's point was that even though Jesus probably needed the help more than John, Jesus sent the help to John and didn't take it for himself.

The message was clear: ALWAYS look outside of yourself to benefit others, and never consider your own needs. I mean this really was the message of this book IMHO. This is what he said--what I believe he was saying. It was a message about not being selfish--but Bednar pushed the idea to an extreme, or so it seemed to me. And, to be quite frank (and I mean this in all sincerity), I felt like some of the messages he had in this book, if applied to real life, would result in abuse happening. It was so skewed, so one sided in its emphasis, it negated even a semblance of balance.

I was stung again--this time by David Bednar's book.

I remember having a hypothetical thought, using Bednar's reasoning and logic in the book. Suppose, for example, my son had made a promise to his aged grandfather that he would mow his lawn. Suppose my son then had a moderately serious accident on his skateboard, and had torn his knee up with a serious cash that would require stitches. And suppose he had a nasty bump on his head, was throwing up over it as well, indicating a possible concussion.

As my son's father, what is my responsibility now?

Well, according to Bednar, if I want to teach my son about the real Jesus, I should help my son look outside of himself. So even though my son's injuries are painful and might have complications, the best thing is for my son to think outside of himself and deny his immediate needs, and go take care of his responsibility to his grandfather. Right?

This seems luducrous...utterly. I see that. I know that. But this is actually inline with the things Bednar taught and how he taught it in this book. Bednar made a point of saying that in every case, even though Jesus needed the help more, he looked outside of himself and took care of others needs before his own.

In this case, would my son not be taking care of his grandfather's needs ahead of his own?

Seems consistent to me...right?

So this brings me to the point of this thread. The biggest damage done to me through LDS teaching, particularly from men like SWK, BRM, BKP and now DAB, is that the very balance of right vs wrong, wise vs foolish has been twisted and skewed, even broken.

We hear things like "Thou shalt not commit adultry"....but we must not apply those principles to JS because he was "the prohet".

We hear things like "Thou shalt not kill"...but we must not apply those principles to BY because he was "the prophet".

We hear things like "Thou shalt not bear false witness"...but we must not apply those principles to GBH because he was "the prophet".

We hear things like baptism at 8 years old...but we must not apply those principles to gay family children because of "the policy"...

And we hear things about "Stay in the Boat"...when all I am hearing is "shut up and drink the coolaid".

The very lines between moral character, right vs wrong, have been damaged in me. This is the biggest damage done.

I didn't have too hard of a time with SWK's book Miracle of Forgiveness. It was a lot like the Law of Moses in that it taught specifically what was sin and what wasn't. It taught the Law and was very legalistic. It also taught me that I could overcome a lot more than I thought I could if I made a big enough effort.

What Christ has shown me is that there is forgiveness for good faith effort even if I don't overcome absolutely everything in this life and that that effort is ongoing and accompanied by God's patience and Grace. I don't have to conquer every weakness and be totally pure in order to gain an artificial "Badge of Righteousness" given by men (read temple recommend) in order to be sealed to my wife or attend my kids weddings.

What Bednar needs to discover, if you have given an accurate portrayal of his book, (I haven't read it so can't say), is that there is a BIG difference between following Christ and BEING Christ.

Christ didn't ask us to BE HIM. He asked us to love God with all our strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves. It's not really that hard. It's not really that complicated.

Men who claim to speak for God create problems when they tell us to "look beyond the mark". The Pharisees did it by keeping the "Law" but failing to love and obey God in their hearts which is where it really counts. God knows our limitations. That's what Grace is for.

There may be times when we will be required to sacrifice great things for others but I trust God to tell me when those times will be, not some soothsayer trying to send me on a guilt trip.

The vast majority of our Christ-like efforts will be made on a slow, day by day schedule, in small increments over a lifetime. Small kindnesses. Small Graces given to others. Too bad Bednar doesn't know the true meaning of "tender mercies........"