Brushes with "the other side"?

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Rob4Hope
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Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by Rob4Hope » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:34 am

I've wanted to ask this question for a while. Has anyone out there ever had a physical brush "with the other side"?

Years ago there was this show called Ghost Hunters. It was fun to watch, but from my recollection, they never really ever found anything. Despite that, I have a few close friends who, while looking me in the eyeballs and with sane and clear minds, told me a few things that happened to them which were rather compelling.

I'm NOT trying to start a discussion about ouija board freaky experiences,...OK? So don't take me wrong. What I do want to know is have any of you ever had a physical experience--and I'm not talking about "a feeling"--with the "unseen world"?...something that you can't just brush off, but a real experience?

Back in the old LDS history days, there were seances and spiritualism happening. Heck, it was the "magic world view" of JS himself!

Let's keep it to physical events though--I do want to avoid the "feeling" stuff. I've had feelings myself, and they are so subjective I don't take those as evidence.

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No Tof
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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by No Tof » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:15 pm

Just the physical facts eh?

Ok. I saw a catholic priest attempt to exorcise an evil spirit from a young girl. Just as I thought he was getting it right she turned her head all the way around......... oops I think it was in a movie.

It was a physical experience in that I watched it in a theatre.

I think this is pretty much what the whole "other side" is.

JMO :twisted:


On the other side of the coin, I rarely watch that kind of show now cause it gives me the creeps. I really don't think I believe in the spirit world, but it still feels gross.
Looking forward to hearing about all the ghosts out there.
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MoPag
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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by MoPag » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:08 pm

Rob4Hope wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:34 am

Back in the old LDS history days, there were seances and spiritualism happening. Heck, it was the "magic world view" of JS himself!
Yeah, but they were also probably really bored, really tired and quite possibly intoxicated.

So, boredom + exhaustion + mid 19th century spiritualism + alcohol = the things that happened in the old church history stories we heard about from the weird seminary teachers.
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believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by didyoumythme » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:16 pm

I have no stories to share, but i am also interested in hearing any stories. A family member of mine claims to have had a “physical fight” (like a wrestle of sorts) with an evil spirit. The facts don’t seem to line up in his story, but he is a sane TBM and believes it sincerly. I think it’s in his mind.

On a related note, why are all spiritual encounter stories at night? This seems to point to the fact that these are not reality. The movies portray it this way, and people always tell stories about seeing figures, shadows, spirits etc. at night. If the spirit world were real, I would expect many of these experiences to be in the daylight as well.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being honest, or cease being mistaken. - Anonymous

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by Rob4Hope » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:27 pm

I know this is a hot topic for some, and others scoff at it. But, is it really possible there is NOTHING that we can't see?...no unseen world?...no "other side?"

I briefly mentioned the near-death phenomena which DOES present overwhelming evidence that some type of psychic event happens when a person brushes up against death.

Some on NOM would say: "There is no god". OK,...I'm fine with that. Some would say: "There is no life after death." That one may be a semantic argument, because 'life' may be too strong a word. But saying there is NOTHING after death, meaning no consciousness or individual awareness--well that one is hard to grapple with, especially considering what research has found.

I assume everyone on NOM is alive :-) and there may not be many NDE survivors here. No matter. This question is more along the lines of non-NDE. No one here has ever brushed up against "the other side"?

I don't want to be rude at all, but are we, because so many of us have been burned by LDS tradition and falsehood, completely biased against allowing the existence of any "other side" events?

Because we ourselves might not have had any experience along these lines, does that make us willing to unilaterally declare: "There is NO other side"? I'm not willing to do that...not yet. I want to gather info and let that speak for itself BEFORE I close the door on any possibility.

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by Rob4Hope » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:42 pm

didyoumythme wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:16 pm
On a related note, why are all spiritual encounter stories at night? This seems to point to the fact that these are not reality. The movies portray it this way, and people always tell stories about seeing figures, shadows, spirits etc. at night. If the spirit world were real, I would expect many of these experiences to be in the daylight as well.
I think the movies as well as EXTREME religious bias destroy the confidence of many who may have had such experiences but are unwilling to share them for fear of ridicule. I know this is a topic of study that is being considered by researchers who look at some of the other psychic things going on.

Even the word "psychic" carries a payload. How many of you, when reading that, immediately thought of the local "psychic hotline"...or had the knee-jerk reaction of "wacco going on here again..."?

D. Michael Quinn ran into that problem when he published his "Magic World View" book and used the word occult. The guy documented it to such an extreme you wouldn't think to call him 'wacco' for using the word or exploring the topic. But, the TBM LDS community certainly berates him over it. Isn't that the book that basically got him excommunicated?

Anyway, the point is its hard to have a discussion about this topic when the well is virtually covered with poisoned ideas from the get-go.

My whole life I was steeped in LDS theology and stories. MY ENTIRE LIFE (and I'm over 50!). When the shelf fell, it crushed me: the very foundations of my life were called into question. When the dust settled, I found myself questioning everything I had ever believed OR DISBELIEVED. I question the foundations of GOD, life, death, right wrong,...you name it. I've also learned to disregard the critic who scoffs at something, and as the Book of Mormon puts it, only has "their own word" as proof. Believe it or not, that actually is a principle in that book I think is worth its salt.

The lack of factual evidence does begin to stack the deck in favor of concluding something is false. The lack of factual evidence of the Book of Mormon makes the claims of the book less likely to be true. That is valid logic. But saying there is no "other side" and claiming lack of evidence as the supporting factor?--well, that may be valid, but you better check to see if there is any evidence FIRST before you make that conclusion.

That is all I'm saying here. Let's keep an open mind.

Let me expand the topic. Does anyone have any evidence there is NO other side? I'm not trying to approach this with a prejudiced mind. I wanna know BOTH sides, or if there is another side, that too.

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by Rob4Hope » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:55 pm

No Tof wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:15 pm
Just the physical facts eh?

Ok. I saw a catholic priest attempt to exorcise an evil spirit from a young girl. Just as I thought he was getting it right she turned her head all the way around......... oops I think it was in a movie.

It was a physical experience in that I watched it in a theatre.

I think this is pretty much what the whole "other side" is.

JMO :twisted:


On the other side of the coin, I rarely watch that kind of show now cause it gives me the creeps. I really don't think I believe in the spirit world, but it still feels gross.
Looking forward to hearing about all the ghosts out there.
When I saw that show you mentioned it was when I was an adult. It was rather disgusting, but paled in comparison to "The Walking Dead"!

I also don't watch much of that stuff. Why do so many people like to watch guts, ghosts, and mayhem? I suppose I'm guilty of the same in my own way; when the buildings explode and the hero comes through to solve the problem and saves everyone, I still watch. Oh well...

I responding to your post Nof Tof because I also want to make sure this thread stays lite. I'm serious in my question, but I recognize the fun side of this strange topic. I admit, for this group here (and many others--let me assure you), this topic may seem strange. :-)

As far as I know, many of the folks here are now more agnostic or atheist than anything else. If that is incorrect, I'm totally open for correction, but that would thread-jack my own thread. So, I will perhaps defer that for another thread.

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by Emower » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:14 am

No experiences from me. I think it is interesting that a lot of people will list others as having these experiences. A cousin, grandparent, mission comp or buddy, roommate or what have you. First hand accounts seem to be rare.

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by alas » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:53 am

Part of the problem of why people do not share first hand accounts is they do not like being scoffed at. And until a person knows that the audience is safe, they keep their mouths shut. In a religious setting people are careful to use the word spirit rather than ghost, when they are talking about a visitation by a dead relative. But, what is the difference? I remember as a kid getting into discussions with friends about such things. They are adamant that they do not believe in ghosts, but would happily tell you the story about when dead grandma's spirit came to warn them about going to the party, then there is a shooting at the party. And they insist they do not believe in the occult or magic but then they turn around and believe stuff that IS occult, just saying that it is Satan. They believe that garments protect your physical body, but don't CALL it magic.

So, there is a language problem. Little kids are shamed for being scared of ghosts, but it s just fine to think the angel Moroni came to Joseph Smith. The angel Moroni was a dead guy, a ghost.

Now, I would not admit even anonymously on NOM that I have had experience to make me believe there is some continuation after death, because there are scoffers on NOM.

But I will say I know people who have had very credible experiences with dead loved ones. A dead wife waking a man up and telling him to get out of the house minutes before it goes up in flames. Could be a guy waking up from a dream with the subconscious smell of smoke causing the dream to take on a warning? A distinctive smell of a colonoscopy bag walking through the house during the after funeral lunch for dad, who had a colonoscopy bag. Three people said they saw dad in peripheral vision, but then looked and there was nothing, but most everyone experienced the smell. Coincident? Mass hallucination?

And many experiences I have heard do happen during the day, so I think it is just the television version of such events that is at night. None of the events I have heard about were frightening at all.

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by wtfluff » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:20 am

alas wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:53 am
... In a religious setting people are careful to use the word spirit rather than ghost ...
Unless they are talking about Holy the Ghost of course...

And as for myself: Nope. No experiences with ghosts, spirits, dead relatives, resurrected angels... Nothing.

When I was a young-un, we did have a "ghost" in our neighborhood that would toss pebbles at us when we were hanging out (after sunset of course.) We named him (her?) Rocky. I'm pretty sure that we were just tossing pebbles at each other and egging each other on. I never did any pebble-tossing myself, and I swore one night that a pebble came flying out of my back-hard, and quickly hopped the fence to catch "Rocky" and only found my dog staring at me with a WTF? Look...
Last edited by wtfluff on Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by Rob4Hope » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:22 am

I wish I had one of these brushes myself--first person. I would post it and take it full on from those who said I was 'wacco', and those who said there may be something to it. This topic can be polarizing, expecially in NOM where so many of us have been burned and are--frankly--pissed about it (like me).

Let me share 3 second-hand ones, all told me by people who I believe were credible and had no reason to lie.

1) A friend of mine, as a child, saw his father siphon gasoline out of a car and "wanted to be like daddy". He sucked on the tube, taking the fluid into his lungs which basically liquified them. He was rushed to the hospital and ultimately pronounced dead--lungs burned with gasoline in them. He came back and made a recovery with a story to tell of leaving his body. It's a classic NDE, but the difference is it's my close personal friend. He told me this story and allowed me to press him rather hard with questions, trying to expose lies, disparities, etc. His account was consistent, credible, and I couldn't tell if there were any lies. I don't think there were. I believe my friend.

2) Another friend of mine crashed in a plane and had 3rd degree burns over most of her body. Her face -- the one she has now -- is a reconstruction from over a dozen (that is NOT an exaggeration) skin grafts. I've told this story before in another thread. I also pressed her VERY hard, trying to see if there were anomalies/disparities that didn't make sense in her account. I couldn't. I believe SHE believes what happened to her. I lean toward believing something really did happen that can't be brushed off as a hallucination or some type of death rattle brain activity. The details defy that type of conclusion--it just doesn't fit. I believe this friend as well. If you saw her and her completely reconstructed face, arms, neck, etc (the only part of her that is her are her eyes), you wouldn't think she is trying to be deceptive by telling a story that also has garnered her a fair share of criticism and belittling. She didn't get rich off her tragedy, nor by telling her story. What she got was criticized by many, with a few believing her. She maintains she died multiple times, has medical records showing death and looks like a walking piece of scar tissue.

2a) I'm gunna mention another personal friend I have who is an attempted suicide survivor. Her NDE is a little different. I spoke to her personally about it as well, and couldn't trip her up. She didn't enjoy what happened to her. Her "psychic" experience wasn't pleasant...but I'm not gunna get into her story.

3) This one is a strange one. This is a brush that is creepy--but it does make a point. Another friend went on an LDS mission to Haiti. Despite the fact I am no longer TBM, I do admit that LDS missions allow for many young people the opportunity to visit far-off lands they otherwise would never visit. This young friend was in Haiti, in a part there where voodoo was openly prevalent. I don't know much about that religion, so I asked this guy who explained that as far as he knew, the basic idea of practitioners is to invoke spiritual possession, and through that means, communicate with the dead or other psychic beings. The rituals, drugs used--including hallucinogens--are all part of that. As it happened, this young man got a call from his Branch President who was a native there. His daughter had involved herself in the local voodoo cult, and there was something going on at their house that needed attending to immediately. The missionary went, and in this young ladies room saw her laying horizontally hovering 2 feet over her bed. Everyone in the room was utterly terrified.

When my friend told me this story, I basically called "bullsh!t" right off, and I pressed him hard...VERY HARD. He wasn't joking. He wasn't smiling, laughing, goofing off or trying to be clever or coy. He was dead serious, had also been hurt by scoffers who ridiculed him and didn't share the story much. He maintained that it happened. He was NOT under any drug usage, he was in his right mind, awake and alert at the time. It frightened him badly.

There, I've shared what many would call a "wacco" experience in #3 there. I was not there first hand, but I did receive it from a first-hand person who claims to have been there and gone through it. I don't know what to believe. I have no reason to disbelieve my friend, but perhaps a reason to conclude something else. Is he lying? Did he have some type of creepy dream he has superimposed into a real life experience and he has his facts messed up? I don't know.

I am confident in the validity of stories #1, #2 above. Why?...because there are over a MILLION such accounts being shared and researched. Do you all know there is a peer-review process underway where people are looking at NDEs and applying science to it, trying to crack it open? Know what they are finding?....they are finding they can't crack it open! There is something GOING ON that shows psychic events really do happen.

I've been open. I hope my openness will encourage others to perhaps share....

I am aware of another personal account similar to #3 (told to me first hand by another friend) that involved a shamanic guru who was into transcendental meditation to one of those levels that virtually baffles science. I will NOT share that one.

OK folks. I think there is something to this "other side" business. I can't explain some of this stuff. I also can't explain the "double slit" experiment and the "collapsing wave function" that is a foundation of Quantum Mechanics either, leading some to postulate about the "multiverse".

Admit it--there are some things we really don't understand, but there IS something to it. The "double slit" problem is scientifically reproducible. NDE experiences are being recorded in astonishing numbers as well. I myself am personally aware of and have spoken to half a dozen of these NDE folks. And, there are these other "psychic" things that, though scoffed at, are there.

Please share.....

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by DPRoberts » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:30 pm

Hey Rob,

I have no personal experience to add, although there is someone on this forum who has had an NDE and posted about it on the old forum. He seemed well read on the subject. I will see if a PM to this forum member can get him to join the thread.

I can tell you of some second hand instances I heard of this last year. What I found most interesting was the combination of similariteis and differences between the two stories. One was told over the pulpit in church about a faithful older man, now deceased, who in his last days was occasionally receiving visitors from the "other side" who included close family members who had passed on before. This was related by an obnoxiously TBM leader as obvious evidence of the blessings and end result of being faithful. But then during the next week or so I talked to a Muslim friend whose Muslim father had recently passed. Guess what? The Muslim father was also receiving visitors in his final days, mentioning specifically a brother who had passed before. So if there is something to this kind of veil-jumping it is not exclusive to Mormonism.
Rob4Hope wrote:Admit it--there are some things we really don't understand, but there IS something to it. The "double slit" problem is scientifically reproducible. NDE experiences are being recorded in astonishing numbers as well. I myself am personally aware of and have spoken to half a dozen of these NDE folks. And, there are these other "psychic" things that, though scoffed at, are there.
I am quite willing to agree with you that there likely is something to these unexplained phenomena. IIRC, the "double slit" problem is one in theoretical physics that does not have a known explanation in our natural world of three dimensions of space and one of time. I wish I understood the math well enough to understand how some of the interesting views of an expanded reality are pointed to. What I do get is that to those who can follow the math, it points to a reality that is "not only queerer than we presume, but queerer than we can presume".

Evolution apparently found little to no advantage in giving us the ability to sense realities not directly related to our survival in a four-dimensional world. Nevertheless, I am glad that we at least have a tool in mathematics to point us to possible realities outside our limited ability to perceive. I do have hope in possibilities. I hope there is more to our existence than just being mud that sat up and took a look around.

By contrast, I find Mormon certainties to be decidedly hope-less.
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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by Mad Jax » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:34 pm

didyoumythme wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:16 pm
On a related note, why are all spiritual encounter stories at night? This seems to point to the fact that these are not reality. The movies portray it this way, and people always tell stories about seeing figures, shadows, spirits etc. at night. If the spirit world were real, I would expect many of these experiences to be in the daylight as well.
Sleep paralysis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by Rob4Hope » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:44 pm

DPRoberts wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:30 pm
I do have hope in possibilities. I hope there is more to our existence than just being mud that sat up and took a look around.
Ditto. I really do hope there is more. And I'm also aware of the LDS/Muslim finding you showed there. It appears that being "sealed in the temple" didn't seem to prevent the Muslim reunion, which is an interesting incidental commentary on the LACK of necessity to the sealing ordinances. I've encountered a lot of those things during my reading. Most of the NDE accounts actually do some pretty serious damage to many LDS claims.
DPRoberts wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:30 pm
By contrast, I find Mormon certainties to be decidedly hope-less.
When I read this, I got two meanings: 1) the certainties are false; 2) the certainties destroy hope in their rigidity. After additional thought, I've concluded both interpretations are accurate.

I suppose that if things continue to get off the ground with the NDE research happening out there, and if, through science, the idea of consciousness existing outside of the body is established, I expect a whole new crop of apologists to have fertile ground for years to plow through. Some of the ideas support the idea of the spirit world, but there are some real problems associated with "Celestial Families".

PS...I should mention to others in this thread that the reason I brought up the "double slit" experiment is because it has cracked the door open to serious discussion about consciousness influencing the physical world. And in a way, it also touches on the idea that consciousness may exist outside our physical world, meaning consciousness may be something that can separate from our physical bodies.

Why is this relevant?...it allows wiggle room, IMHO, for those who see the world only scientifically. Now we can consider that maybe, somehow, there may be an "other side" that doesn't have to be spiritual, eternal or anything. Maybe it's just something out there we don't know much about. Its just "the other side".

===========================================
PSS. Not meant to be a tangent, but this may be interesting to any science hacks who care. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSBaq3vAeY.
I've seen this video and it blows my mind. Observation actually changes physical reality, even from a distance. The thing that is involved?...consciousness. Our conscious minds, something science has been UNABLE to explain, interacts with physical reality, changing waves to particles and particles to waves, by respective observation alone.

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by EternityIsNow » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:43 pm

I'm one of several group members here who have had an NDE type of experience, it was pretty amazing. It was the most 'real' feeling experience of my life.

There is a huge literature now on NDEs and OOBEs and related phenomenon. Some of it is fiction, I am aware of that, but most of the literature is consistent with what I experienced. This phenomenon is difficult to understand without fairly in-depth reading, because each experience is unique in some ways, and finding the common threads takes time.

My conclusion after having and studying the experience is that human life is about experiencing being human, that is all, experiencing the good and bad. That is what our 'eternal' being is curious about. As for what is reality, we are always in a projected, or manifested reality. We just shift between planes of that reality when we are out of body, have an NDE, or have brain events that alter our perception (due to drugs, magnetic 'God' helmet, etc). Even some hallucinations probably involve shifting the plane of our perception, and they are all real to some degree. So the NDE itself was like a shift to a different frequency of reality, with our current human world being a very low frequency, and when we die or have out-of-body experiences our consciousness simply shifts its focus to a slightly higher frequency. I know frequency is probably not the best word, but I don't know what to call the shifting and frequency is close to how it feels.

And my experience plus some study afterwards convinced me that religion is 100% man-made. The NDE and what happened in my life afterwards was what made my shelf fall, because I became convinced that the NDE model of the universe is correct, and religion has very little real insight into life or its purpose. I get more out of philosophy or science.

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:46 am

Good topic Rob!

I do not have an NDE to share, but when I was about 16 I woke up one morning but I could not move my body. It really freaked me out. It seemed like it was about a minute long experience. At the time I was thinking to myself that I was possessed by some evil spirit that had taken over control. I remember crying out for help in my mind, asking Jesus to save me and a few seconds later I began to gain control. I'll never forget that experience and had no other explanation for it until years later when I found out about how dopamine and other chemicals in the body control sleep. Sleep disorders have now been clearly identified where there are dopamine deficiencies that cause some to act out their dreams physically and others can't move when their mind wakes up.

In some Hispanic cultures, the inability to move after you wake up was attributed to the Devil sitting on your chest.

As with all of my past emotional or circumstantial "Spiritual Experiences", be they good or evil, my emotional reactions were significantly influenced primarily by the Mormon dogma I was indoctrinated with and secondarily by cultural beliefs and media trends.

As far as life after death I am smack dab in the middle of "I don't know." I could write off NDE see the light experiences as the last firing of the diminishing electrical currents in the brain or a hope for some existence of consciousness after death.

I highly recommend the This American Life episode on The Fear of Sleep:
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio- ... r-of-sleep
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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by LaMachina » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:04 am

Count me among the scoffers. Although, in the vein of alas' comments on how we frame our beliefs and positions, I would never describe myself as one. It's just I have been described as one by others, including my DW. I'm an unbeliever, a skeptic. I prefer to call myself a Doubting Thomas as even the gospels give that position some validity while also taking a shot at those who insist "seeing is believing".

I have had some "supernatural" experiences in my life but they were not that spectacular. I've been able to brush them off. I do know others who claim far more extensive experiences. I have a family member who claims to have visited with a dead relative for a good amount of time while fully awake and conscious. I would never say he, or most individuals who claim these or similar things are lying. I think that particular category of person is actually quite small. I feel that even Joseph believed most of the things he claimed.

But I harbor doubts these experiences are what some claim they are. Personally I think the brain fires on longer than we previously thought, which seems to be supported by science. I've read a lot on the topic and remain unconvinced that consciousness exists outside of a truly dead brain.

I really have no definitive explanation for my family members visit or vision as they claim it was no hallucination or dream. I honestly would hope for some sort of experience after death but thus far I have no evidence for it beyond the anecdotal stories of others. I continue to wait for my own visitation and then we will see how I decipher it.

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by Rob4Hope » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:11 am

LaMachina wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:04 am
Count me among the scoffers. Although, in the vein of alas' comments on how we frame our beliefs and positions, I would never describe myself as one. It's just I have been described as one by others, including my DW. I'm an unbeliever, a skeptic. I prefer to call myself a Doubting Thomas as even the gospels give that position some validity while also taking a shot at those who insist "seeing is believing".
I think "scoffers" are ESSENTIAL to finding truth, so no hard feelings here. I think it was Bill Reel (?) who did a podcast on the absolute necessity of "punching holes" in things. Truth stands on its own. If something, claiming to be true, is unable to stand while the hard questions are asked, then it isn't true.

In this thread, I am seriously trying to be objective. So, in my mind, the criticism (and I mean criticism of an idea, not a person) IS ESSENTIAL.

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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by Rob4Hope » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:25 am

EternityIsNow wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:43 pm
I'm one of several group members here who have had an NDE type of experience, it was pretty amazing. It was the most 'real' feeling experience of my life.

There is a huge literature now on NDEs and OOBEs and related phenomenon. Some of it is fiction, I am aware of that, but most of the literature is consistent with what I experienced. This phenomenon is difficult to understand without fairly in-depth reading, because each experience is unique in some ways, and finding the common threads takes time.

My conclusion after having and studying the experience is that human life is about experiencing being human, that is all, experiencing the good and bad. That is what our 'eternal' being is curious about. As for what is reality, we are always in a projected, or manifested reality. We just shift between planes of that reality when we are out of body, have an NDE, or have brain events that alter our perception (due to drugs, magnetic 'God' helmet, etc). Even some hallucinations probably involve shifting the plane of our perception, and they are all real to some degree. So the NDE itself was like a shift to a different frequency of reality, with our current human world being a very low frequency, and when we die or have out-of-body experiences our consciousness simply shifts its focus to a slightly higher frequency. I know frequency is probably not the best word, but I don't know what to call the shifting and frequency is close to how it feels.

And my experience plus some study afterwards convinced me that religion is 100% man-made. The NDE and what happened in my life afterwards was what made my shelf fall, because I became convinced that the NDE model of the universe is correct, and religion has very little real insight into life or its purpose. I get more out of philosophy or science.
Thank you for sharing. From what I've read and from consulting my two friends, having an NDE and explaining it are two different things. I've often likened it to the idea of trying to tell someone what salt tastes like. Unless they've tasted it, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to explain how its tastes. NDEs can be similarly difficult to explain.

One of the consistent things present in a LARGE majority of NDEs, especially those with OOBEs, is "hyper-alertness". Many NDE accounts also refer to this world as being the illusion--meaning this world is a lower one or one in which our true intellectual faculties are diminished.

What you said about "frequency" is also a common topic I've read.

One of the things discussed with the "double-slit" experiments I've mentioned is that they report particles disappearing--literally vanishing--and then reappearing somewhere else. One of the conjectures to explain this is that we humans are creatures superimposed into a 3D world, but that there are more dimensions that actually exist. We can't perceive them because our framework is limited--but they exist mathematically, and observable phenomena supports the conjecture, particularly with things like disappearing/reappearing matter.

This is all VERY cutting edge science....but I keep bringing it up for 2 reasons: 1) it is a very clear example of something observable which is not yet understood (could NDE's just maybe fit into that category?...observed but maybe not understood yet?); 2) the dimensional aspects certainly provide an interesting and perhaps possible bridge between reality experienced, and alternate reality which may involve different dimensions.

WOW...like science leaves the door open for "the other side"?......

COOL....

All you lurkers out there?...share your stories. AND, share your criticisms as well. Just make sure to criticise the event or conjecture, not the person. I'm an open book here...I'm learning as fast as I can, and have not formulated any conclusions.

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LaMachina
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Re: Brushes with "the other side"?

Post by LaMachina » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:23 am

I am fascinated by the discussion.

Perhaps my biggest problem with putting much stock in anecdotes of a clearly distressed or injured brain is how clearly we know our perceptions are fallible.

I know I've mentioned this book somewhere before but have you had the chance to read "My stroke of insight"? A neuroscientist suffered a stroke and described the experience. She has given a Tedtalk:

https://youtu.be/UyyjU8fzEYU

The reason I share is some of her descriptions reminded me of NDEs and OBEs. Her perception of time and being inside her body changed. I can't eliminate the possibility that she entered a different dimension but it certainly seems plausible that traumatic brain injury can cause a breakdown of our perception of the world and ourself.

These are also anecdotal but I've seen the effects of brain trauma. A relative suffered from a brain tumor and I have a child who suffers from mental illness. You start to mess around with brain mechanisms (like what would happen with the onset of death) and some pretty trippy things can happen.

But I honestly try to be open minded.

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