ad hominem -- AHH,...I get it

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
Post Reply
User avatar
Rob4Hope
Posts: 1359
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:43 pm
Location: Salt Lake City -- the Motherland!!

ad hominem -- AHH,...I get it

Post by Rob4Hope » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:54 pm

Had an aha moment again. I am having those more and more often.

There is scripture that basically says forgive to be forgiven. Its used a lot in doctrines, and so forth. And this is how it plays out....

Q: Did Joseph Smith lie about his relationship with other women?

A: Why are you asking that question? Of COURSE he didn't lie about it!

Q: But it says here in church history that he gave a talk a few weeks before his death where he publically said he wasn't involved in polygamy.

A: You sure have a lot to talk about. Maybe he had no choice but to say that, and we are supposed to forgive him anyway. You certainly have things you need to be forgiven of, and you have no right to judge him. You need to repent of all of your mistakes and sins, and ONLY then would you even DARE to question the prophet!

And so it begins. The "ad hominem" is used, justified by the "forgive to be forgiven" argument, as a way to shield the wrongdoing of leadership.

GAWD THIS MAKES ME ANGRY!!!!!!

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 4144
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: ad hominem -- AHH,...I get it

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:17 pm

Rob, put down the Mormonism and take a step back dude! You're going to give away all the secrets.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
Rob4Hope
Posts: 1359
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:43 pm
Location: Salt Lake City -- the Motherland!!

Re: ad hominem -- AHH,...I get it

Post by Rob4Hope » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:21 am

You know....if there is a God, he has it figured out. The way to teach patience is by having a someone like me have a discussion with a TBM about whether Gordon Hinckley lied on national TV. We can't even establish whether the church teaches or has taught that God was a man.

I mean, forget about the first vision and God having a body of flesh and bone. Forget about God being resurrected, like Christ. Forget about the King Follet discourse. Forget about the teachings in the D&C.....ad nauseum.

GAWD, GIVE ME THE STRENGTH LORD TO CARRY ON!!!!......this TBM is as stupid as a rock and as slithery as a can of oil pored on warm jello!

She is driving me nucking futs!

OK..Ok...calm down...breath...breath. Sorry for freaking out a moment there....phew....breath, breath....

I have to remember this:

twain.jpg
twain.jpg (8.06 KiB) Viewed 4389 times

User avatar
Rob4Hope
Posts: 1359
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:43 pm
Location: Salt Lake City -- the Motherland!!

Re: ad hominem -- AHH,...I get it

Post by Rob4Hope » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:37 am

I'm gunna send this to her, tell her to read it, and then drop the conversation.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1982/02/i-ha ... e?lang=eng

Can't argue with her...its hopeless. I've read Lyndon Lamborn's book, and it makes total sense why she slithers: me asking questions and applying accountability to this is absolutely threatening to her.

My H#LL...I was once just like her and would have probably done the same thing! I remember that, and thank goodness I do--it allows me to step back and grant her some space, as well as myself. This mind-control stuff we were subjected to?....FRIGHTENING! It turns off your critical thinking brain in this area!

User avatar
deacon blues
Posts: 1934
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:37 am

Re: ad hominem -- AHH,...I get it

Post by deacon blues » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:29 am

I feel your pain. Ad Hominem and circular reasoning are frustrating. But........it could be worse. What if you had lived during the Spanish Inquisition, or in modern Arabia. :?
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 3080
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: ad hominem -- AHH,...I get it

Post by Corsair » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:38 am

deacon blues wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:29 am
I feel your pain. Ad Hominem and circular reasoning are frustrating. But........it could be worse. What if you had lived during the Spanish Inquisition, or in modern Arabia. :?
Or 19th century Utah...

Or 21st century FLDS Utah...

User avatar
1smartdodog
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:51 pm

Re: ad hominem -- AHH,...I get it

Post by 1smartdodog » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:33 pm

I am not so bothered by the original liar as much as those who insist on perpetuating it today. They can do better
“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison

User avatar
Rob4Hope
Posts: 1359
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:43 pm
Location: Salt Lake City -- the Motherland!!

Re: ad hominem -- AHH,...I get it

Post by Rob4Hope » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:41 pm

1smartdodog wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:33 pm
I am not so bothered by the original liar as much as those who insist on perpetuating it today. They can do better
Amen!

One of the tenets of LDS theology is that God is not a respecter of persons. Oh really? That scripture alone, when applied to the preferential treatment, even to the extent of bald faced lies to preserve the reputation, of past LDS leadership is such a flagrant violation, I can't see any way to see God in the organization. And the #1 tool used, at least the one I see, is the ad hominem attack couched in the "forgive to be be forgiven" twist, or the "are you reading your scriptures? Are you paying your tithing? Are you masterbating or looking at pornography?" interview questions.

We all know, don't we, that the only reason a person would disagree or question the veracity of LDS leadership is because they themselves are sinning?

Ad hominem...all the way....

Yuk!!!

User avatar
slavereeno
Posts: 1247
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:30 am
Location: QC, AZ

Re: ad hominem -- AHH,...I get it

Post by slavereeno » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:58 am

Rob4Hope wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:41 pm
We all know, don't we, that the only reason a person would disagree or question the veracity of LDS leadership is because they themselves are sinning?

Ad hominem...all the way....
I started this conversation with a friend, its funny how quickly he went here. You can almost predict when these questions are going to hit. It seems to hit right after you lay out enough logic for their back to hit the corner...

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: ad hominem -- AHH,...I get it

Post by moksha » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:16 pm

The motto of apologetics is rather catchy: Denial - Obfuscation - Ad Hominem
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests