Cringe Worthy Degrees of TBM Piousness

[RubinHighlander]

Cringe worthy night at DWs company Christmas Party this month: There was an LDS opening prayer and a closing prayer and there were lots of references in the speeches about their LDS callings, missions, etc. It could have been a Ward Christmas party. I don't know what the percentages of LDS, inactive LDS and non-LDS folks there were in the room, but the LDS tone of the meeting likely made a lot of folks, including myself and DW, very uncomfortable. This is a family owned business, with several service locations throughout Utah, maybe a couple hundred employees.

Now I think as far as TMBs that own and operate their own businesses go, this situation with LDS prayers and comments at a non-church company gathering is probably the exception and not the norm, at least I hope that is the case. Even as a TBM, I would have been very uncomfortable in this situation. I've been thinking quite a lot about it and got to wondering what percentage of TBMs are okay with it vs. those that are not. Let me take a stab at it from my own experiences living here in Utah as a TBM for the past 40+ years.

I think there are two main types of zealous TBMs who weave their religion into their daily not-at-church-or-home lives. They truly do everything they can to live up to the united order they raised their hand to in the temple. Everything they think and do is dedicated to the COB/building up of the kingdom on Earth so they can earn their pass into super VIP heaven. The first type are very sincere and drink every drop of the kookaid; they have no intention of offending or hurting others, but it does happen, just because of the way they think and act.

The 2nd type are a bit more aware of their actions but their pious attitude often moves them into the camp of douchebaggery. They get a bit blind and insensitive to the everyone around them that's not like them and they judge people and look down on them, think they don't try hard enough so they are not blessed as much as they should be, financially and otherwise. This last type typically are successful alpha males, typically in the SP or higher church status. They do not have a realistic view of what life is like for the rest of us who have struggled with all the crap down in the trenches, we are just 2nd class citizens, never to be elect or get a 2nd anointing. I don't think most of these folks are intentionally pious to non-LDS and lower class LDS folks, at least in most cases, I think it's just their world view and can be blamed on their religious indoctrination.

If I had to take a guess as to the percentage of TBMs that fall into this category of piousness toward the rest of the world, I'd say it's pretty small, like 1-2%? In most well established, primarily white, upper middle to upper class wards there are typically about a dozen "great families". I think you all know what I'm talking about. I've heard more than one bishop actually use the term over the pulpit: "The Smith's are moving out of the ward and we bid them fair well with sadness, they are one of the great families and we will miss them." Yes bishop, you'll miss them because they are one of the dozen you could count on to rotate through all the really difficult callings in the ward: YMP, RSP, YWP, NP, EQP, HPGL, BC, ESec, etc. At the stake level it's basically the same, probably worse; in fact bishops are often fighting with the stake over taking their "best" people.

Anyway, probably much to do about nothing here, but those TMBs who think they can just go out into the world and do no wrong, even at the expense of running over the top of other's beliefs and non-beliefs is pretty annoying. I think the one true church/we are the only super special ones narrative is just one thing among many things about religions that is unhealthy for the world.

Have you run into situations TBMs like this one that are cringe worthy?

[Rob4Hope]

I've got at least 2 examples of "Cringe Worthiness"....

1. Mission companion for a total of 2 LONG LONG WEEKS! In Australia where I was, we didn't have clothing dryers--we had to hang our wash on the lines. This Elder would put his garments out there in plain site, despite what anyone would say or think because, "I have NOTHING to be ashamed of. I'm a representative of Jesus Christ!" He would play the martyr card, and in a very sanctimonious manner, explain when asked: "This clothing has personal religions significance". Back in the day, the guy made my stomach churn. He also was a sleep-walker and freaked the SH!T outta me more than once!

2. A family who insists, inside a public restaurant, in saying a prayer over their food. It's out of place, extremely, and gets lots of stares and jokes. Then the martyr card is played again because, after all, it is unthinkable for someone to consider eating with washing their hands...oops, little freudian slip in there about the Pharisees. I mean no know would think of eating their meal without praying over it first, EVEN IF THE PRAY could be offered at home FIRST!

My sister is NOT LDS. My entire family, minus her and I are not. If asked to say the prayer, to avoid a fight, I say it in a dutiful LDS fashion, and everyone approvingly smiles at the outsider. Its purely hypocritical, but for me at this point, I am just tired of the fight. I'm happy to multiply words as much as they want if they will just shut the h#ll up and leave me alone.



If my sister payers,...bahahahahaha. She professes a kindof christian Jewish faith, with a little bit of pentecostal in there. She raises her hands to the sky and SHE PRAYS!!!! You should see my family respond to THAT!!!

I LMAO to the extreme....

[RubinHighlander]

He also was a sleep-walker and freaked the SH!T outta me more than once!

LOL! Oh man, I never had to deal with that kind of crap on my mish!

If asked to say the prayer, to avoid a fight, I say it in a dutiful LDS fashion.

Yup, me too. Been doing it for 40+ years, so doing it for TBMs like my mom just isn't a big deal for me. Even given her a blessing - sacrilegious to some but to me it's just a meaningless ritual that only provides her some mental comfort, so path of least resistance.

If my sister payers,...bahahahahaha. She professes a kindof christian Jewish faith, with a little bit of pentecostal in there. She raises her hands to the sky and SHE PRAYS!!!! You should see my family respond to THAT!!!

Awesome! I've tried non-denominational types of prayers, but they just feel awkward and I'm not religious anymore anyway, at least not to any man-made religion. I do talk to the Universe sometimes when I'm out under the stars, that feels good, especially with a good buzz going on.

Bless these refreshments, Hakunamatatta, and Carpe Diem MFs!

[2bizE]

Several years ago, I came down with an acute illness that left me unable to eat or drink for several days. I became so dehydrated I needed my wife to take me the the hospital. My wife called the neighbor, explained the situation, and asked if she could take our two small kids for a few hours. She could not, she explained, she had to go to Relief Society presidency meeting. Nuff said.

[moksha]

I remember being at a public meeting in a government building years ago. It was in a small Utah town. People at the meeting referred to each other as brother and sister. Of course, this was due to their Mormonism rather than a group marriage between their parents. It was peculiar but it did seem to emphasize a bond of commonality between them. Much better than the nastiness displayed today at some politicized meetings.

Wonder if BYU allowing cola drinks on campus signals a decrease in Mormon zealotry?

[Rob4Hope]

I got another one.

You have a husband/wife having a big massive fight. They divorce and, living in Utah, the woman basically takes it all (and there are a LOT of horror stories about this). The wife runs to the bishop for support, claiming that her EX isn't paying his obligations. So, the bishop gets on the phone, call the bishop of the EX, and the whole "investigation" process ensues. The woman, by the way, works for cash, collects money via whatever that office is in Utah that garnishes wages, and destroys her EX for everything.

The bishop, upon finding out the conduct of this woman, dismisses it because, after all, "...we don't want to loose the children". So, her conduct, fraud, and hate are dismissed.

But let the record show!...this woman DOES NOT DRINK COFFEE! (this EX does). This woman DOES NOT DRINK WINE! (this EX does). And THIS WOMAN HAS A CURRENT TEMPLE RECOMMEND! (This EX left).

But, this EX pays his bills, financed his member daughter on a mission even though he no longer believes, and has paid his child support WITHOUT FAIL since the beginning. This woman--bless her heart--...I don't know what to say. I've met her. I've never met someone with more hate. Nor have I ever met a TBM who lives behind the "WELL....AT LEAST I DONT DO THAT!".

Its amazing how many TBM have forgotten the injunction from Jesus--Love God and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR!

[Rob4Hope]

Oh gees...why stop there....

I know someone...hypothetically. Lets keep this in that real...

This person has means. There is a meal prepared for this person each Sunday, and to this meeting a man is invited, a friend of the family. This invited man is estranged from his adopted brother, has lost both parents, and is not married nor ever has been. His cat died. He now has a little dog that is his only solace when he comes home from long work hours.

Anyway, this man was invited to this meal to share with this family. This hypothetical person didn't want him there. "Why do we have to pay for his meal?" What is secondarily ironic about this statement is this person DOESN'T PAY FOR THIS MEAL IN THE FIRST PLACE. The hypothetical son and hypothetical daughter DO!

Anyway, this once invitecd man was graciously dismissed from the meal to keep peace. Then, this hypothetical person who has the meal prepared prays on the food: "Please bless those who are less fortunate that they will have a good meal today."

Yeh right!

CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE.

Whoever that hypothetical son is in this story,...he no longer says amen to that prayer. But, of course, this is all hypothetical after all....

[RubinHighlander]

Several years ago, I came down with an acute illness that left me unable to eat or drink for several days. I became so dehydrated I needed my wife to take me the the hospital. My wife called the neighbor, explained the situation, and asked if she could take our two small kids for a few hours. She could not, she explained, she had to go to Relief Society presidency meeting. Nuff said.

Wow! Talk about missing the mark! I always admired the Bishops who could cut a meeting short or cancel it on a Sunday and tell everyone to go home to take care of their families and help those in need. I saw a couple examples of this when it was a bad storm that had caused a lot of damage. Then there are those militaristic ones that just march to the drum, no matter what! The really miss the main points of their humanity and the true narrative of the Jesus they pretend to worship.

[RubinHighlander]

I remember being at a public meeting in a government building years ago. It was in a small Utah town. People at the meeting referred to each other as brother and sister. Of course, this was due to their Mormonism rather than a group marriage between their parents. It was peculiar but it did seem to emphasize a bond of commonality between them. Much better than the nastiness displayed today at some politicized meetings.

Wonder if BYU allowing cola drinks on campus signals a decrease in Mormon zealotry?

Interesting thought on the commonality bond that's lacking in a lot of society. In my tech industry job and with most friends and cooworkers we are joyfully affectionate with hugs, shoulder pats and fist bumps (yes, the occasional handshake) and the use of "bro" when we greet. We come from all other the world, very mixed on politics, pretty much all engineering tech nerds, only a few females, most in other departments.

I think zealotry could be on the decline for most of the TBM populous, given the COB had backed off the Last Days narrative and coke is on campus now, but there will be those few that try to keep the drama in their world, fighting Satan and believing they are the stalwart chosen soldiers.

[RubinHighlander]

I got another one.

You have a husband/wife having a big massive fight. They divorce and, living in Utah, the woman basically takes it all (and there are a LOT of horror stories about this). The wife runs to the bishop for support, claiming that her EX isn't paying his obligations. So, the bishop gets on the phone, call the bishop of the EX, and the whole "investigation" process ensues. The woman, by the way, works for cash, collects money via whatever that office is in Utah that garnishes wages, and destroys her EX for everything...

Yeah dude, I know first hand of the lopsided divorce situations that really screw the dads, especially in Utah. However, having been single for a time and got to know a few single women, they end up getting screwed by their EXs who do not abide even the minimum support for their kids, leaving it all on the mom. I paid my alimony and support and beyond to my X for our three kids right up to the end without missing a payment. It was painful, especially where she had the same level of education I did but the income disparity stayed at less that 80/20 by her choice. I paid way too much in attorney fees, fighting for at least 50% custody and to try and stop her moving out of state, but it never gained me anything but financial debt.

Then, when I go and find the right DW, we get all the hassle from the COB and local douche bag leaders on the cancellation of sealing and waiting out the time to go and get married in the temple, then that day comes and the temple works bumbled the crap out of that experience. On top of that I adopt my DWs youngest kid and want to get her sealed to us in the temple and the SP says there's no need because she's born under DWs covenant. I've still got some bitterness over all that crap. As a melded family with a challenging past were always treated as 2nd class citizens in the local units. Again, missing the Fing mark over and over again with sticking to letter, not spirit or not having clear policy and making it up as they go. I think a lot of them get off on playing with peoples eternal destinies.

[Mad Jax]

2. A family who insists, inside a public restaurant, in saying a prayer over their food. It's out of place, extremely, and gets lots of stares and jokes. Then the martyr card is played again because, after all, it is unthinkable for someone to consider eating with washing their hands...oops, little freudian slip in there about the Pharisees. I mean no know would think of eating their meal without praying over it first, EVEN IF THE PRAY could be offered at home FIRST!

I want to see someone make a big show of this but then when everyone expects a prayer have someone shout "For the night is dark and full of terror" followed by a chorus of "Lord of Light! Hear our cry!!!"

[Rob4Hope]

OK...one more. IN utah, there is this really weird law called "zions curtain". Its getting overturned, but I don't think in a way that makes a lot of sense with the licensing. I don't know a lot about it,...BUT ITS WEIRD!

We think that mixing a drink in front of someone will encourage drinking? I would like to see the research on that.

Its a vestige of the LDS stranglehold on prohibition. IMHO.

[wtfluff]

OK...one more. IN utah, there is this really weird law called "zions curtain". Its getting overturned, but I don't think in a way that makes a lot of sense with the licensing. I don't know a lot about it,...BUT ITS WEIRD!

We think that mixing a drink in front of someone will encourage drinking? I would like to see the research on that.

Its a vestige of the LDS stranglehold on prohibition. IMHO.

ALL of Utah's idiotic liquor laws are vestiges of the LDS stranglehold on prohibition.

I mean... Who better to create liquor laws than a bunch of people who don't drink liquor?

The "Cringe Worthy Degrees of TBM Piousness" within the Theocracy that is Utah state government... Well, we could go on, and on, and on, and on...


ETA: I should probably say that there are other states with idiotic liquor laws, which are also vestiges of prohibition. Are there other states where a religion has a stranglehold on the state government?

[RubinHighlander]

OK...one more. IN utah, there is this really weird law called "zions curtain". Its getting overturned, but I don't think in a way that makes a lot of sense with the licensing. I don't know a lot about it,...BUT ITS WEIRD!

We think that mixing a drink in front of someone will encourage drinking? I would like to see the research on that.

Its a vestige of the LDS stranglehold on prohibition. IMHO.

It interesting and annoying to see how the church run Utah government toys with liquor laws and the state run liquor stores. The Zion curtain was a joke, but they kept it around and then use it to give the appearance of giving something up to take some of the angst away from their lowering the blood alcohol content from .08 to .05. I guess I really don't care as long as I can still buy spirits from local distilleries and brewers. I try to avoid the liquor stores where possible. I also hate the 3.5% watered down beers sold in grocery stores and off the tap in bars, but it's really just a first world problem.

[crossmyheart]

If my sister payers,...bahahahahaha. She professes a kindof christian Jewish faith, with a little bit of pentecostal in there. She raises her hands to the sky and SHE PRAYS!!!! You should see my family respond to THAT!!!

I LMAO to the extreme....

My DH has learned to not call on me to say the prayer over food anymore. I call upon the great Flying Spaghetti Monster to lay his noodly appendages upon our food to bless it. Kids crack up every time. They beg me to say the prayer over dinner whenever my DH isnt home.

[Rob4Hope]

Here is more that I think exists mostly in the Mormon Corridor, but drives me crazy. Its the incessant deferral to LDS authority.

Examples, starting at the lowest ones and moving to more ludicrous:

1. You find out your child is drinking and smoking behind the shed. What do you do?..."I've gotta run and talk to my bishop about this. I don't know what to do! He will tell me."
2. I've go this extra money from my bonus. Should I pay tithing on it or should I keep it and pay some bills? Wow, I better read the Ensign articles on this so I can figure out how God (ie the church) wants me to handle my money.
3. I'm really sick, having heart problems. I better get a blessing. ...... (later on) ..... I'm glad I got that blessing. I know that I have faith, so I am not going to the hospital. I want to show my faith in the priesthood of God. I know this would make HF happy.
4. The bishop said the boy was OK to baby-sit. I don't need to listen to the rumors about him being a sex offender. The bishop has the spirit of discernment...I know its safe.
5. I know its a better choice for me to will all of my home and land to the church after I die. After all, even though my children have taken care of me in my old age, they would want me to give everything to God so I can build His kingdom. After all, the church is everything.

[slavereeno]

My DH has learned to not call on me to say the prayer over food anymore. I call upon the great Flying Spaghetti Monster to lay his noodly appendages upon our food to bless it. Kids crack up every time. They beg me to say the prayer over dinner whenever my DH isnt home.

Love this..

[a1986]

Ick! OP, your story makes me so very glad I don't live in Utah. Pretty sure that would not fly anywhere else. . .

Some "cringy" stories for you. . . when my husband and I first started dating I was not a member and he took it upon himself to sort of indoctrinate me / teach me the mormon ways, along with his sister. He tried to influence my decision of what bathing suit to wear when we were planning on going swimming somewhere with his family saying that a two-piece is "immodest." He's since been educated. . .

His sister used to invite us both over to her house a lot when we first started dating. Looking back, I'm pretty sure it was an attempt to keep us from spending too much "alone time" together. I felt like a teenager and always felt really awkward spending time at her house with him. She would invite us over for "pizza parties" like we were kids or something. I was 25 at the time. . .

My SIL tried to get me to look the part of a mormon "lady" early on. She introduced me to the wearing of "sexy" tank tops with a white cap-sleeved shirt underneath. Sorry to anyone who wears tank tops like this, but I cannot stand this method of layering. I've noticed a lot of LDS women wear tank tops like this to hide their garments. She also had me wear the first slip I'd warn since I was probably 12 years old. She also bought me church clothes when my now husband and I started dating so I could "fit in" better. Lots of ruffles and grandma-looking clothing that has long since been donated.

Before I met my husband, he told me about a girl that seemed interested in dating him. She once invited him over for "milkshakes" to her house and he asked if he could bring a friend. Her first response was "are they righteous?" Apparently she did not associate with unrighteous folk.

Ugh I have so many stories, some are more related to people in my husband's family trying hard to indoctrinate me in really roundabout ways or assimilate me into the culture. Both attempts have backfired and I'm now again on my own path in life which has nothing to do with the church.

[Ghost]

I can't imagine living in a place with so many Mormons that the culture would also be present at work or school. However, the story in the original post reminds me of something similar that I experienced.

Some years ago, I worked for a company with a CEO who would often include pretty heavy Christian-themed messages in his speeches when addressing the employees. In one speech in particular, he went on for a while about Jesus. Many of the employees were definitely not from a Christian background, such as a large group from India, and I wondered what they thought of the situation.

[Gatorbait]

Can't leave this one alone- but for a different reason then some of the earlier posts.

It's weird how humans want to gather into groups- not just Mormons- but in everything. Think about it- blacks. We have the guy doing the evening news, and he's polished and smart and we love him right? Wrrrong. He is not black enough. Or the street thug black gang banger. Like? Hell no- too black and too mean. Then we have the blacks who grow up with whites. Also not black enough. On and on.

Women- too prissy. Too fat. Too skinny. Ugly. Nose in the air so far it's snowing on it. Someone, an unkind backward thinking person can "hate" anyone who is not just like him or her- male or female- black, white, red, yellow or purple.

Mormons. We all have some we like- hell we love them. We like being with them and laugh and play and joke and it's cool as hell. What's not to like?

But some Mormons hate those liberal Mormons, or fun loving Mormons. Why? Because they are not just like them.

Same with everything. Prove me wrong, please. Dare ya. We like people who are just like us or smarter or prettier or kinder- but we don't like and won't tolerate rudeness, unkindness, mean spirited bastards, or any other nasty thing someone does. Or- at the top of the list- people who think that they are better than us.