President Monson's Passing

[moksha]

I am going to miss President Monson. He seemed like a voice of moderation within the Brethren. Picking Eyring and Uchtdorf as councilors seemed a very wise move. Those two always gave addresses that seemed gentler and more spiritual than the rest. Within a group that has multiple political interests, the apolitical seems the truer to the teachings of Jesus path.

It was wonderful that President Monson lived as long as he did. Ninety is a ripe old age which exceeded that of Elder Boyd K. Packer. That in itself is a reason to celebrate his life and Presidency.

Now that Elder Russell Nelson will receive the scepter and the keys, I wonder who he will choose as his councilors. Will he retain the current ones or will he choose a different set of councilors like Elders Oaks and Bednar?

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Traditional precedent shows that at least one counselor is typically retained in the next presidency.

Benson kept Hinckley, Hinckley kept Monson, Monson kept Eyring

[azflyer]

Benson chose not to retain Romney given his age and health. In the other instances mentioned, there was only one counselor to keep as the other counselor was becoming the President. The only time a counselor was not retained for reasons other than health in the last 100 years was when Joseph Fielding Smith declined to retain Hugh B Brown. If Russell M Nelson decides to go with new counselors, it will say a lot about the direction he wants to move things.

[oliver_denom]

I am going to miss President Monson. He seemed like a voice of moderation within the Brethren. Picking Eyring and Uchtdorf as councilors seemed a very wise move. Those two always gave addresses that seemed gentler and more spiritual than the rest. Within a group that has multiple political interests, the apolitical seems the truer to the teachings of Jesus path.

With all the terrible things that surrounded Smith, it's easy to forget about his utopian vision. He dreamed of theocracy where all men were equal, even if they weren't Mormon. But when I say men, I only mean men, and his version of equality is a lot like what we have today. Everyone is "free" so long as they choose to obey the brethren in every matter. Smith thought that if everyone were properly enlightened that they'd naturally agree with one another because they'd all be listening to God and following his bidding. It must have been frustrating for him to learn that only he knew what god wanted and was constantly having to call others to repentance.

If everyone would simply think and act like the president of the church wants, then there would be no need for so much discipline, correction and coercion. We should all repent for the difficult time we cause these beloved brethren. If it weren't for all our thinking and speaking, we'd have heaven on earth.

[1smartdodog]

Monson was the president of my apostasy so I paid much less attention to him than the others during my 59 years

Not sure what he will be remembered for by members but he did have lots of stories to tell.

I did hear once he was a fan of Diet Coke so how could I not like him.

[Palerider]

I noticed that elder Nelson was able to overcome his quirky slither tongue idiosyncrasy that used to color his talks in general conference. So it shows that with effort, he can make changes if he thinks it will improve how people perceive him.

But he in particular has never struck me as being spiritual. More of a mocking the little people and "keep the law" kind of guy.

[moksha]

I noticed that elder Nelson was able to overcome his quirky slither tongue idiosyncrasy ...

I am trying to conjure in my mind exactly what a quirky slither tongue idiosyncrasy would be but it comes out looking like a writhing tongue from the depths of the Slytherin House lavatory. What exactly did you mean by this?

[Not Buying It]

Not sure that I agree that President Monson was a voice of moderation. Some pretty horrible policy changes were made under his reign, and while it is true he was out of it a lot of the time, it's not like he ever tried to undo any oppressive, creepy, or manipulative policies the Church had in place the five decades he was a leader in it even when he was operating at full capacity. Elders Eyring and Uchtdorf may make a show of being kindler and gentler than the other Brethren, but push comes to shove what evidence do we have that they really want to change anything in the Church? Zilch. They are just better at managing their public image than the other Brethren.

President Nelson can choose anyone he wants as counselors - he is not in any way bound by any choices made in this regard in the past. If he's savvy he keeps President Uchtdorf because he is a well-liked, but as I said in another post, I strongly suspect the rest of the Brethren are jealous of him and that may influence President Nelson to not keep him in the First Presidency. My guesses are Elders Bednar and Rasband. It is unusual for the President of the Twelve to be selected, so while it could happen I doubt it, and Elder Bednar fits well with President Nelson's apparent love of zealotry. Elder Rasband is a horrible kiss-up and that takes you places, so that's why my bet is on him. He's thinks he's the rock star of General Authorities.

[crossmyheart]

In years past during every conference, my TBM mother would always cuss under her breath and mention that the only reason Nelson made it to the 12 was because he was SWK's physician. I reminded her of that yesterday and she denied ever saying it.

Not to start any rumors- but wasn't it one of Nelson's sons that was caught up in a child sex abuse scandal - about 10 years ago? or was it someone else? I remember talking about it with a friend who lived in Utah at the time and how it got miraculously swept under the rug without too much media attention and he got away with a slap on the wrist. It was either Ballard or Nelson just cant remember which.

[Palerider]

I noticed that elder Nelson was able to overcome his quirky slither tongue idiosyncrasy ...

I am trying to conjure in my mind exactly what a quirky slither tongue idiosyncrasy would be but it comes out looking like a writhing tongue from the depths of the Slytherin House lavatory. What exactly did you mean by this?

You have to go back 15 or 20 years maybe to see it, but Nelson had this "habit" of slipping his tongue out every few words or so.

After awhile it started to gross me out it was so consistent. I'm sure someone (family member?) either finally mentioned it to him or he saw it when he watched his own re-runs on tv and decided to change that little quirk. I don't think he does it anymore but then, I don't watch conference like I used to either.

[Emower]

I noticed that elder Nelson was able to overcome his quirky slither tongue idiosyncrasy ...

I am trying to conjure in my mind exactly what a quirky slither tongue idiosyncrasy would be but it comes out looking like a writhing tongue from the depths of the Slytherin House lavatory. What exactly did you mean by this?

You have to go back 15 or 20 years maybe to see it, but Nelson had this "habit" of slipping his tongue out every few words or so.

After awhile it started to gross me out it was so consistent. I'm sure someone (family member?) either finally mentioned it to him or he saw it when he watched his own re-runs on tv and decided to change that little quirk. I don't think he does it anymore but then, I don't watch conference like I used to either.

I wonder if Aunt Wendy enjoyed it a little too much...

[slavereeno]

but Nelson had this "habit" of slipping his tongue out every few words or so.

After awhile it started to gross me out it was so consistent. I'm sure someone (family member?) either finally mentioned it to him or he saw it when he watched his own re-runs on tv and decided to change that little quirk. I don't think he does it anymore but then, I don't watch conference like I used to either.

I noticed this a ton with Bruce R McConkie. I can't watch his talks without a grossing out.

[Corsair]

It's often difficult to get a sense of the human behind the general authorities. It's especially true with a prophet since someone like Monson was the face of the LDS church for ten years. This is part of the reason that I still feel confident that the apostles largely do believe that the LDS church is "true" and are really not closet apostates quite like many of us. They may be "wrong" or at least "negligent" form our point of view. They are in a very intact bubble built by the hero worship of believing Mormons all around them combined with decades of diligent support of the institutional LDS church. As a result they are not equipped to connect with the average apostate like we wish they would.

But I don't think they are evil and I think that the human pain caused by the church really bothers them. They are hemmed in by years of diligence and social conditioning. They probably interpret this paradox as part of their sacred calling when they are unable to come up with a way that solves the pain and leaves LDS authority and truth claims intact. I will happily grant their humanity even when it's hard to avoid the impression that they do not grant the same level of humanity to people in their own crisis of being LGBT, single, a victim of trauma, or the growing underground of unbelief.

Rest in peace, Thomas Monson. Our profound disagreements were never solved but I respect the humanity he still had.

[MoPag]

Not sure that I agree that President Monson was a voice of moderation. Some pretty horrible policy changes were made under his reign, and while it is true he was out of it a lot of the time, it's not like he ever tried to undo any oppressive, creepy, or manipulative policies the Church had in place the five decades he was a leader in it even when he was operating at full capacity.

Don't forget Kate Kelly and Ordain Women too. That was on TSM's watch.

President Nelson can choose anyone he wants as counselors - he is not in any way bound by any choices made in this regard in the past. If he's savvy he keeps President Uchtdorf because he is a well-liked, but as I said in another post, I strongly suspect the rest of the Brethren are jealous of him and that may influence President Nelson to not keep him in the First Presidency.

I'm with you there. I feel like the rest of the Q15 can't wait to give Uchtdorf the #BYEFELICIA from the FP.

My guesses are Elders Bednar and Rasband. It is unusual for the President of the Twelve to be selected, so while it could happen I doubt it, and Elder Bednar fits well with President Nelson's apparent love of zealotry. Elder Rasband is a horrible kiss-up and that takes you places, so that's why my bet is on him. He's thinks he's the rock star of General Authorities.

The idea of Bednar getting more power is scary. I really like the idea of Rasband in the FP though. He's like Kevin from The Office
. One of them will have to speak every Women's session of GC. I feel like Rasband would do less damage because the talks would probably just be about how awesome he is. I do think RMN would find a more competent kiss-a$$ in Christopherson or Anderson though.

[Rob4Hope]

i'm sad he's gone. Why?...cuz I knew more about him than I do about Nelson.

Nelson is 93. Oaks is 85. Unless there is a shift-up, if Oaks lasts any length of time, chances are pretty good he will eventually rise to the chair.

[Jeffret]

Nelson is 93. Oaks is 85. Unless there is a shift-up, if Oaks lasts any length of time, chances are pretty good he will eventually rise to the chair.

Just going by the statistics, Nelson has a remaining life expectancy of 3.4 years, Oaks, 6.0 years. So statistically, Oaks is likely to outlast Nelson, but he'll be pretty old himself by the time he does, with only a few years remaining life expectancy. And on down the line.

[Rob4Hope]

Nelson is 93. Oaks is 85. Unless there is a shift-up, if Oaks lasts any length of time, chances are pretty good he will eventually rise to the chair.

Just going by the statistics, Nelson has a remaining life expectancy of 3.4 years, Oaks, 6.0 years. So statistically, Oaks is likely to outlast Nelson, but he'll be pretty old himself by the time he does, with only a few years remaining life expectancy. And on down the line.

I can't figure Oaks out. When I see him, I see Darth Vadar (i'm sorry, but there it is). The guy gives me the creeps.

[oliver_denom]

Nelson is 93. Oaks is 85. Unless there is a shift-up, if Oaks lasts any length of time, chances are pretty good he will eventually rise to the chair.

Just going by the statistics, Nelson has a remaining life expectancy of 3.4 years, Oaks, 6.0 years. So statistically, Oaks is likely to outlast Nelson, but he'll be pretty old himself by the time he does, with only a few years remaining life expectancy. And on down the line.

I can't figure Oaks out. When I see him, I see Darth Vadar (i'm sorry, but there it is). The guy gives me the creeps.

I see Oaks as someone with a gifted intelligence who has gone far too long without anyone challenging his thoughts. If everyone treats you like the smartest person in the room and balks at disagreeing with your assessments, then hubris and pride take over. Everyone needs to be put in their place from time to time just to keep grounded in reality. The fact of the matter is that very smart people are simply better at deceiving themselves and others. Intelligence doesn't give you the magic ability to always reach the correct conclusions.

[Rob4Hope]

Just going by the statistics, Nelson has a remaining life expectancy of 3.4 years, Oaks, 6.0 years. So statistically, Oaks is likely to outlast Nelson, but he'll be pretty old himself by the time he does, with only a few years remaining life expectancy. And on down the line.

I can't figure Oaks out. When I see him, I see Darth Vadar (i'm sorry, but there it is). The guy gives me the creeps.

I see Oaks as someone with a gifted intelligence who has gone far too long without anyone challenging his thoughts. If everyone treats you like the smartest person in the room and balks at disagreeing with your assessments, then hubris and pride take over. Everyone needs to be put in their place from time to time just to keep grounded in reality. The fact of the matter is that very smart people are simply better at deceiving themselves and others. Intelligence doesn't give you the magic ability to always reach the correct conclusions.

No one is allowed to challenge him. He is protected, insulated, and aloof.

I've sat in Stake meetings where, if someone wanted to ask a question, you had better ask ONLY prescribed questions, or else. I've gotten the feeling there would be some TBM zelot who would take it upon himself to jump you and force you out of the building if you dared ask the wrong question.

I remember reading an account of BRM being asked a question in the MTC about a passage in the BoM. He yelled in righteous indignation: "DEPART!"...throwing the young elder who asked the question out of the room.

I mean, this is BRM folks!.......he did no wrong! This "man of God", in love and patience that the church preaches, was moved upon, clearly by the holy ghost, to maintain a sense of self control and graciously and kindly ask this elder to basically get the hell out...all with the glory of God and the dignity his office afforded,...of course.

Yeh right. He showed his true colors. He was a bully.

Its the same with these Q15 guys now. They are idiots. You can't touch them either--they are well protected.

[2bizE]

I feel RMN and aunt Wendy will be fairly benign. I fear the dark lords Oaks and Bednar. They have too much unchecked power. They need to be grounded in reality.

As for TSM, I always liked his talks. Sad to see his was an a$$, but I don't think he started that way. He was an apostle for 40+ years. He got too used to having everything handed to him. He never had want for money or food. Everyone bowed to him. Over time, he changed into a brat. Much like the twin dark lords.of.terror. nobody questions them and they have no criticism provided. They can do no wrong...