Mormon Funerals (not the TSM one)

[RubinHighlander]

This past weekend I attended the funeral of a good friend. He had battled cancer for 3 years. After the last round of chemo in early December they told him he only had a few more weeks and to go home and be with his family. He was a big man, former military, and it was hard to seem him just before Christmas, just skin and bones, barely able to walk. But I really respect his bravery to fight and hang one as long as he did. He made it through Christmas and died on the night of December 31st, making his last trip around the sun at the age of 57. It was the grand kids that kept him fighting. I don't know how brave I would be in that situation to have that brutal quality of life for last 2-3 years.

Most of us here have likely attended a few traditional Mormon funerals: held in an LDS chapel, presided over by the local bishop, basically a FATM, followed by a grave dedication followed by a lunch catered for the family by the RS. When DW, DD and I went to the funeral last Saturday at our old ward we had not been in there for two years. DD was very uncomfortable, DW somewhat; it didn't feel strange to me and I felt comfortable. I shook a few hands, exchanged some hugs and enjoyed seeing some faces of TBM friends I had not talked to in a while. One of my former TBM friends is now a counselor in the BR, came down off the podium to give me a hug and shake my hand. Normally I would have thought he was being dutiful, but I know he is a sincere guy and really meant it. Ironically, when I was an EQP in that ward years ago, I had picked him as my counselor.

I used to feel like TBM funerals were faith promoting and spiritual, like a FATM on steroids, because the veil is so thin and all that BS. It stands to reason that's the belief because of how emotional everyone is. My views on death and what I want for my funeral began to change years ago, before I had even entered NOMdom. I never liked the dead body on display thing that is tradition in most of human societies these days. I've always been bothered by it, even with my former TBM beliefs about the body and soul. I really hate the big post death funeral industry and the significant money they charge to provide "Only the best for your loved one." The idea of preserving the body, putting it on display then locking and sealing it in a very expensive box underground...not for me! Get my atoms back to the Earth and universe they came from. If money were no object, I've have my ashes rocketed into the sun.

DW, DD and I all discussed how we would like cremation and no viewing of the body. For me this changed, even as a TBM, but for DW it was postMo. I would like my kids to take my ashes to be spread on the Great Salt Lake or up on a mountain top in the wind. If DW survives me, she's can keep some of my ashes in a jar at home. I would like any post death meetings of the family to be a party, playing my favorite music, maybe looking at my photos and videos and reminiscing all the great adventures we went on. When they spread my ashes on the wind or lake they can crank up the Foo Fighters Song: Bridge Burning "These are my famous last words!" But honestly, they can do what ever the hell they want because I either won't know, because my consciousness won't exist anymore, or I'll be headed out into the universe to explore another dimension (or in hell, hanging out with a lot of my best friends).

What about you? Have your views of death and the funeral process changed dramatically since you entered NOMdom?

[RubinHighlander]

It's just weird to me to think TSM has his body on ice for over a week here in SLC, waiting to make all the arrangements for thousands to flock here and gawk at it.

[Rob4Hope]

I don't want to be a financial burden to my family. That is the biggest thing that matters to me.

[LaMachina]

Sorry about your friend. It conjures up memories of watching love ones suffer through that...I can relate.

It also brings back bad memories of the funeral. My uncle (a really good dude but a total zealot) was tasked with sharing the life story of the deceased and he went full McConkie and basically gave a missionary discussion. I was so pissed at him at the time and I was still a mostly believing member.

As for me, I'm not sure what the local laws are, but I'd like to just be buried in some sort of biodegradable setup under a tree. Let the earth reabsorb this mortal coil.

[Palerider]

I like the concept of having a small place that is memorialized where I can go and see first hand that my ancestors really were here on earth, that they had a life that had significance and this spot is a little proof of that life.

It's probably just a mental or emotional thing. I think of the billions of people who have lived here on earth in near anonymity, only known to a couple of generations of their kin folk. And then the memory of them just fades away and in a few hundred years nobody even knows they existed. They are only known to God.

If we think about the few characters that history has begun to keep track of, the Churchills, Ceasars, Ghegis Khans, Kennedys......they are really such an infinitely small part of the true history that has occurred here on earth.

I was just reading today about a 500,000 year old site in Israel that is newly being excavated. There are hundreds of flint axes that were created by the "people" who seasonally lived at the site because of the abundance of game and water. They are considered "homo erectus". Not quite homo sapiens yet but still a direct link to modern humans. I'm curious about them.

What were their relationships like? What about language? What would we discover if they had somehow preserved their dead with artifacts in a grave? Kind of like the Native South Americans who buried their dead high in the Andes mountains. Or a low tech form of Egyptian burial.

Funny thing this weekend we were with some TBM friends and the subject came up of where we would like to be buried. The TBM wife said she wanted to be cremated which kind of surprised me. I said, " I thought the church kind of frowned on that sort of thing in the past." She said, "Oh, they've backed way off on that since the church has gone world wide. A lot of countries don't even allow burial of bodies. They have to be cremated."

I thought, "How pragmatic of the church to change something that was practically doctrine in order to facilitate the acceptability of the "gospel" in a foreign land."

[Rob4Hope]

It's just weird to me to think TSM has his body on ice for over a week here in SLC, waiting to make all the arrangements for thousands to flock here and gawk at it.

Its like hero worship. It is weird. I get it, and it creeps me out as well.

[RubinHighlander]

I don't want to be a financial burden to my family. That is the biggest thing that matters to me.

Big one for me too!

[RubinHighlander]

Sorry about your friend. It conjures up memories of watching love ones suffer through that...I can relate.

It also brings back bad memories of the funeral. My uncle (a really good dude but a total zealot) was tasked with sharing the life story of the deceased and he went full McConkie and basically gave a missionary discussion. I was so pissed at him at the time and I was still a mostly believing member.

As for me, I'm not sure what the local laws are, but I'd like to just be buried in some sort of biodegradable setup under a tree. Let the earth reabsorb this mortal coil.

It does seem like laws favor the established industry of being buried in expensive concrete vaults and coffins. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the political lobbying powers of that industry. I'd be okay with a gunny sack under a tree if it were allowed and cheaper than cremation. I'd also be okay with the towering inferno platform, like some native American cultures used to do.

The cancer think is a puzzler for me. I don't know how I would face it if it happened. Right now I think my plan would be to wander out into the remote desert and just disappear in a hole or crack in the Earth, but maybe if I faced the actual thing I'd want to fight. I've learned not to think too much in absolutes, but keep things fluid.

[RubinHighlander]

I like the concept of having a small place that is memorialized where I can go and see first hand that my ancestors really were here on earth, that they had a life that had significance and this spot is a little proof of that life.

I get that. I'm hoping my digital presence with all my photography and such is good enough to replace an expensive grave site that very few ever visit. I'd rather have my kids and their kids think about me when they visit the mountain or lake where my ashes were spread. But like you said, a generation later it's lost.

I was just reading today about a 500,000 year old site in Israel that is newly being excavated. There are hundreds of flint axes that were created by the "people" who seasonally lived at the site because of the abundance of game and water. They are considered "homo erectus". Not quite homo sapiens yet but still a direct link to modern humans. I'm curious about them.

I'm also very interested in these early humans an pre-humans!

Funny thing this weekend we were with some TBM friends and the subject came up of where we would like to be buried. The TBM wife said she wanted to be cremated which kind of surprised me. I said, " I thought the church kind of frowned on that sort of thing in the past." She said, "Oh, they've backed way off on that since the church has gone world wide. A lot of countries don't even allow burial of bodies. They have to be cremated."

I thought, "How pragmatic of the church to change something that was practically doctrine in order to facilitate the acceptability of the "gospel" in a foreign land."

I was raised with the doctrine of no cremation, but as I grew older, even as a TBM, really liked the cremation idea much better. Ever since I was a kid I hated the dead body display of the traditional funeral. I'm glad your DW found the practical non-TBM view of that past silliness.

[alas]

There are companies that bury you under a tree. I think the tree seed is put with your ashes and buried just deep enough to give the tree a good start, and the cemetery becomes a forest. If we had a house (mansion) like gets passed down in the family, then putting the ashes/tree in the back yard sounds good.

You can also be turned into a diamond. Give your widow a new ring to wear to remember you by.

I know some places are restricting where you can leave ashes, like no tossing them to the wind out of an airplane. Think of if you are sitting on the beach with your soda and an airplane flies over, scattering ashes to the wind and some dust settles in your soda. So, they are restricting where people can scatter ashes.

Our family is not one to go visit graves, so I doubt my children will want a place they can go. Although my DIL is big on visiting the grave of their child who died, so maybe she will want a place to go visit to remember us. But, I am good leaving all decisions up to those who are grieving. I would be fine with whatever because once I am dead, I don't much care what people do with my remains. But if my children want to bury me or keep me on the fireplace mantle, it is up to them.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

There was a news story a few years ago where a custom motorcycle builder had his ashes run through the motor of one of his bikes. Awesome funeral tribute! Haha.

[Reuben]

I want a closed-casket funeral "because of the wood chipper." Either that, or I want attendees to be told that my body had to be cremated days before so that they could be intimately involved in spreading my ashes and won't you try these delicious brownies?

If they insist on an open casket, I want a recording of myself playing on a loop saying things like, "Can you do me a favor and scratch my nose?" and "I can't wait to get out of these clothes."

Also, I want a clown. Or maybe a stand-up comedian because my kids hate clowns.

More seriously, maybe just a barbecue. Anything to get family and friends together, hugging and crying and talking. I might have to arrange the party ahead of time, though, to keep the ward from doing it. If the local bishop is in charge, he'll likely follow the handbook and thus make my funeral into a Plan of Salvation missionary lesson. I get the impression that denial of grief isn't helpful for anyone not 100% convinced that they'll see their loved ones again.

[RubinHighlander]

Another thing I really hate that is often said at Mormon funerals: The Lord needed him/her more than we did, so they were called back to heaven. In the case of my friends funeral, the bishop said something along those lines of my friend being a solider, called back to fight for the Lord in these last days. WTF!? I thought the war in heaven was over? So an omnipotent all powerful God really needs some guys spirit more than the family that will be struggling without their father/husband? Mental gymnastics at it's finest.

[RubinHighlander]

Elon Musk has a pretty fly option for your ashes - you can be a shooting star, burning up in Earth atmosphere:

https://www.celestis.com/experiences-pr ... 3lEALw_wcB

[w2mz]

I know some places are restricting where you can leave ashes, like no tossing them to the wind out of an airplane. Think of if you are sitting on the beach with your soda and an airplane flies over, scattering ashes to the wind and some dust settles in your soda. So, they are restricting where people can scatter ashes.

This reminded me of the scene in The Big Lewboski when they scatter Donny’s ashes. (Warning: Funny, but NSFW language)

https://youtu.be/u44D3qKKGPU

Personally, I want whatever happens to me to be cheap and environmentally friendly. I’m not much of a grave site visitor, and I doubt my kids and grandkids will care/think much about me after a few years have gone by anyway.

My grandpa was a WWII hero and a popular businessman who ran a visible store in the town where he lived for many years. He was known for his positions of responsibility in the church and he was well known in the community. He’s been gone now several years and beyond his immediate kids, I doubt many think of him regularly.

A few years ago we were visiting a cemetery and I happened upon a really old grave stone of a young person (I should have taken a picture of it) that had a very sad inscription which read something like “The brightest light has gone out from our lives, it will be difficult to move on without her...” It was evident that whoever commissioned he headstone was grieving terribly. Yet here was the stone, now some 70 years later, with zero flowers on it. Most likely anyone familiar with this young person was also dead and gone the pain of her loss forgotten with the passage of time.

[1smartdodog]

I think a Viking funeral would be a good sendoff

[Rob4Hope]

My mother (who ironically has passed), had a little hanging she put over the stairway for everyone to see:

"When I die, I want to buried on the 11th hole. That way my husband will visit me twice a week while he GOLFS!"

I smile when I walk down those stairs because its still hanging there! I miss her. She has been gone about 3/4 of a year.

[JustHangingOn@57]

I would like to think that my TBM DW would respect my wishes and have a closed casket, non-Mormon celebration of life event. But that ain't going to happen. As per BKP's admonition, my funeral is to be a faith promoting missionary event culminating in me being buried in my dust collecting robe, apron, and sash. (with eternal elastic marks on my forehead from the too tight bakers hat). It's not worth arguing about because in the end I won't give a sheist anyway. I'll be dead.

[Gatorbait]

Thought provoking post, and one I enjoyed. Thank you RH.

Funerals are difficult in the LDS culture because the attendees claim they "know" that the deceased is now in a better place. (sigh)

The big event funeral for Monson was advertised on TV last night. On TV mind you. This smacks of everything Jesus Christ taught not to do. Good grief.

One of people I loved and admired most, a TBM, but I loved her dearly and weep as I think of how much I miss her said this to me, "I don't want a funeral because I don't want anyone fussing over me." We did a grave side service and it was special, simple and appropriate. Sure, prayers were offered and they were sweet and heartfelt. No fuss, as she requested. I consider her resting place hallowed ground.

Sorry about the loss of your friend RH. I think that you did the right thing though by attending the funeral. Paying respect to the family. Good on ya mate.

[mooseman]

My grandmother was inactive my entire life. While my dad was on his mission in the late 70s, my "grandfather" and the bishop tried to use her temple covenants to "break" her into obedence to his abusive ass (she wasnt exactly temple worthy i recently found out, but they focused on how she wasnt submitting to him rather than other issues) and she was out.
My dad returned from his mission to find both his parents remarried, much happier and her living up the "non" mormon life with her Christian scientist husband who i actually think of as my grandfather.

Fastforward 20 something very full years, she was diagnosed with ALS as i was preparing for my mission, and somehow she held on to when i got home and asked me to give her eulogy at a funeral president packer would not have approved of . She was cremated in her temple robes (somehow she got her bishop to sign off on that), and her urn sat prominently displayed in their home surrounded by pics of her life, kids and grandkids until my grandfather (dads stepdad) passed away some 10 years later from cancer and his own faith crisis.
He was buried, as they planned, holding her remains so she could be, in her words, "in his arms forever".

My maternal grandmother specifically said shed haunt her kids if they had a viewing if any more than a small graveside service because "if they wont come see me when im alive, i damn sure dont want em seeing me dead"