God Runs This Church

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deacon blues
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God Runs This Church

Post by deacon blues » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:58 am

Rational Faiths posted this article by Blaire Ostler that I thought was very well done: https://rationalfaiths.com/god-runs-church/ The dichotomy of agency and obedience to authority can be, and likely is exploited by leaders. Thoughts?
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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Corsair
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Re: God Runs This Church

Post by Corsair » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:07 am

I like this article but do have two sticky questions about it. First, this talk uses the common trope that "prophets are men and can make misktakes", but continues the tradition of never naming any actual mistakes. Was there any mistake with the doctrine or policies of plural marriage? Can anyone outside of John D. Lee be at fault for the Mountain Meadows Massacre? Was Delbert Stapley in error when he chastised George Romney during the Civil Rights Act of the 1960s? Perhaps the Priesthood ban could have been reviewed much earlier in our history.

There are some very nice quotes from leaders from George Cannon up through Bruce McConkie and Dieter Uchtdorf about LDS leaders making mistakes in practice or doctrine. But at no point are any actual mistakes mentioned. No event in LDS history yet seems open to criticism outside the forums of lowly apostates.

The second problem is more immediate. What should you do if you believe that a mistake is currently happening in the church? This is a talk by a woman who includes "Mormonism, feminism, and transhumanism" in her author bio. I have a lot of respect for her, but I would love to know how she would approach Ordain Women, for example.

This is not the kind of message that we hear in General Conference. Elder Uchtdorf was rather intriguing with his "Come, Join With Us" talk in October 2013 conference. But substantive discussion of both important and small issues remains outside of the general membership. Could we revise the Word of Wisdom to allow coffee or tea? Is there a functional way to include a legally married LGBT couple in a ward? Could we allow missionaries to call home more often than twice per year? Could we remove the one year civil marriage penalty for temple sealings so that non-member family could be involved? Could we open up church finances and possibly revise tithing policies? Is there any review of priesthood blessings performed by women like their used to be in the 1800s? Will any new sections be added to the D&C like the CoC does?

These are not small questions and I would agree that revelation from God would be helpful on these matters. But we only get the tyranny of the bureaucracy rather than a "Thus Sayeth the Lord." I would nominally be OK with not changing any of these questions if a prophet boldly and openly explained the systematic theology behind each issue. As long as it is only Sister Ostler asking these questions it remains effectively irrelevant to the lived experience of the average Mormon believer.

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wtfluff
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Re: God Runs This Church

Post by wtfluff » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:28 am

My first thought about the title of the thread: Thought-terminating cliché.

Honestly, there are inumerable Thought-terminating clichés within mormonsim, and likely in all religions. For those who don't follow the link, such sayings are used: To relieve the stress of cognitive dissonance by avoiding all further consideration of a matter.

It looks as though the author of the article finally gets to the "real" definition/conclusion of the "God Runs This Church" cliché in the second-to-last paragraph of her article, after a lot of mental gymnastics to calm her own cognitive dissonance. :twisted:


It likely wouldn't be too difficult to link pretty much every Thought-terminating cliché to a logicial fallacy either...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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