Official church statement on Joseph Bishop

[2bizE]

Here’s the statement from president newsroom

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/ ... march-2018


Thoughts:

“They listened carefully to the claims being made and then this was immediately reported to the Pleasant Grove Police Department”

This statement made my BS meter go into red alert.

[Not Buying It]

Well, geez, they have Bishop confessing on tape, how difficult can their supposed “investigation” be? And I am sorry, but they have hardly had a “no tolerance” policy in the past, and for them to claim otherwise is not the least bit honest.

Pretending that turning this over to law enforcement ended their responsibility in the matter when notified of it in the past is ludicrous. Are you telling me they have never excommunicated anyone accused of sexual assault if they claimed they were innocent? Rubbish.

[wtfluff]

So... Based on President Newsroom's statement, it's all going to be about "He said, she said." They've absolved themselves of all liability.

"He" will "win" unfortunately...

[Kishkumen]

What do you expect them (the church) to say? They're not going to self-implicate.
The audio interview is extremely damning. There is reasonable evidence he guilty of some type of gross misconduct. The more I think about, The church should probably suspend Mr Bishop's membership in good standing immediately. These allegations are serious enough that his Temple Rec should be immediately revoked, all callings suspended, etc. If he's found innocent, then all can be restored.

Ex'ing him without due process would not be correct, but putting him on administrative leave while this mess is sorted out is appropriate. That being said, this is a church and not public employee, so the Church doesn't need to disclose any internal actions nor should it at this point.

[wtfluff]

So... Based on President Newsroom's statement, it's all going to be about "He said, she said." They've absolved themselves of all liability.

"He" will "win" unfortunately...

Quoting myself to add: Hopefully other victims will come forward. If so, then it won't be only "He said, she said". Not that I'm hoping there are a bunch of victims, but if the recording is accurate, there are more victims, and more victim's voices will hopefully put this creep where he belongs...

[oliblish]

Here’s the statement from president newsroom

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/ ... march-2018


Thoughts:

“They listened carefully to the claims being made and then this was immediately reported to the Pleasant Grove Police Department”

This statement made my BS meter go into red alert.

They called the police because she threatened to kill him after they refused to listen to her complaints or to let her know if he had faced any discipline. The church reported her to the police not Joseph Bishop.

From the transcript:

Doesn't matter. Not important. I had my youngest daughter with me. She was ______ at the time. I called Salt Lake and I said look, I need answers. It's been a very long time. Here's his name, here's what he did. What happened.

You know what they told me? You're not entitled to know. I said, I'm not entitled to know? Is there a council? Was there a court, was he excommunicated, did [inaudible 01:21:11]? What? You're not entitled to know.

I said, really. Well you know what, I have a gun. I do have a gun. I was trained in ________, I have a gun. [inaudible 01:21:25] I will -- I know where that bastard lives, I will go shoot that bastard myself. And [inaudible 01:21:31) until the cops show up.

And I said, I was on at the mission training center, and the mission president sexually assaulted me. It's still on record. I just checked before I came here. Never got an answer. Last year I talked to my stake president,________ , you know. Can you just give me some closure, an answer, something.

Why has the church never spoken out? There's a recent article in the paper about some bishop in Provo who didn't report something, and the church came out saying, we are transparent. We have a zero tolerance for this. I'm like yeah, right, bullshit.

[2bizE]

I don’t think Joe was fully truthful in the interview. He claimed being a sexual predator is something he has struggled with all his life up until 3 years ago at about 82 years of age.
I predict there is a long trail of victims along the way possibly including children and grand children.

[Red Ryder]

Anyone else notice the PR response mentions Joseph Bishop as Mr. Bishop or Joseph Bishop and not by Brother Bishop or any former title like President Bishop?

At the same time, the Church referred these allegations to the local ecclesiastical leaders of Joseph Bishop. Those leaders met with Mr. Bishop, who denied the allegations.

Yet Carlos Asay is referred to in his proper title as Elder Carlos E. Asay?

This woman reaffirmed her allegations, and Mr. Bishop has again denied them. We have no record of an interview between Elder Carlos E. Asay (1926-1999) and this individual.

Talk about distancing themselves from this guy!

[alas]

If it was reported to the police, the police would have a record of it. And, more importantly, if it was reported to the police then the police would interview her then SHE would remember that and so why is she asking what the church ever did with her report? To me it smells like ten day old fish stored in the Catholic Church. The way the church operates is that they would talk to the accused and when he failed to confess, they would assume that the victim was lying and drop everything into the circular file.

The church has no tolerance for bad press, and things reported to the police get out to the press, so when it is a choice between believing a victim and her stirring up bad press, or throwing the victim under the nearest bus, they opt for the bus and avoidance of bad press so they actually have a huge tolerance for abuse. The only abuse they have no tolerance for is when they feel they are abused by public opinion. The church is all about saving the "good name of the church." It is not about protecting women and children.

[Red Ryder]

Would the PG police have any record of it available to the public? Is there a freedom of information request that can be made?

[Not Buying It]

Should we recap some of the most troubling parts of the Church’s statement?

Not surprisingly, the stories, timelines and recollections of those involved are dramatically different.

Why is this not surprising? They think one of them is lying? Any guesses who they are inferring it is?

This woman reaffirmed her allegations, and Mr. Bishop has again denied them.

Well, denied them after admitting them on the recording. Why is there no mention of inconsistencies between what he said on the recording and what he is telling them now?

The Church, as a religious organization, does not have the investigative tools available to law enforcement agencies.

Nope, they have some things that are better than investigative tools, namely, the spirit of discernment, the gift of prophecy, and a hotline to the Man Upstairs himself. Why the hell can’t 15 prophets, seers, and revelators with their much ballyhooed gift of discernment figure out if Mr. Bishop is lying?

At the same time, the Church referred these allegations to the local ecclesiastical leaders of Joseph Bishop. Those leaders met with Mr. Bishop, who denied the allegations. Unable to verify the allegations, they did not impose any formal Church discipline on Mr. Bishop at that time.

So let me get this straight - if you tell your ecclesiastical leaders you didn’t do it, they can’t do anything about it and that’s the end of it? Ummm...pretty sure there have been plenty of times it didn’t work that way.

...when this former Church member, who served briefly as a missionary in 1984...

And right there they have completely decimated her credibility in the eyes of any believing members. Oh, yeah, she’s an apostate who came home early from her mission. No reason to listen to a word she says.

The gall of these people, I tell you..

[Thoughtful]

Here’s the statement from president newsroom

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/ ... march-2018


Thoughts:

“They listened carefully to the claims being made and then this was immediately reported to the Pleasant Grove Police Department”

This statement made my BS meter go into red alert.

They called the police because she threatened to kill him after they refused to listen to her complaints or to let her know if he had faced any discipline. The church reported her to the police not Joseph Bishop.

From the transcript:

Doesn't matter. Not important. I had my youngest daughter with me. She was ______ at the time. I called Salt Lake and I said look, I need answers. It's been a very long time. Here's his name, here's what he did. What happened.

You know what they told me? You're not entitled to know. I said, I'm not entitled to know? Is there a council? Was there a court, was he excommunicated, did [inaudible 01:21:11]? What? You're not entitled to know.

I said, really. Well you know what, I have a gun. I do have a gun. I was trained in ________, I have a gun. [inaudible 01:21:25] I will -- I know where that bastard lives, I will go shoot that bastard myself. And [inaudible 01:21:31) until the cops show up.

And I said, I was on at the mission training center, and the mission president sexually assaulted me. It's still on record. I just checked before I came here. Never got an answer. Last year I talked to my stake president,________ , you know. Can you just give me some closure, an answer, something.

Why has the church never spoken out? There's a recent article in the paper about some bishop in Provo who didn't report something, and the church came out saying, we are transparent. We have a zero tolerance for this. I'm like yeah, right, bullshit.

Yep, this is what I got out of it too. Funny how that timeline matches what she is claiming, all other record of it has disappeared. Hmmmm.... Funny.

[crossmyheart]

So... Based on President Newsroom's statement, it's all going to be about "He said, she said." They've absolved themselves of all liability.

"He" will "win" unfortunately...

Here is my pessimist point of view...
The thing is, he has already won. He won 25+ years of church benefits for him and his family. Probably free college tuition for his children and probably grandchildren. He won untold amounts of income from books and other publications. He won all kinds of benefits for decades while holding a position of priesthood authority that were freely given to him by the church, all the while knowing he was a predator. He is old and has some kind of onset of dementia - cant imagine any kind of punishment now that would make much difference. Even if charges were brought, it wouldn't take much to show he is incompetent for trial. He won.

[Corsair]

I have to link to A Response to the LDS Newsroom’s Statement on Sexual Abuse in the MTC on Feminist Mormon Housewives. This is an incisive and scathing response. I could not have done better.

[IT_Veteran]

Would the PG police have any record of it available to the public? Is there a freedom of information request that can be made?

Yes, they do. They've already said they contacted her about the threats against Bishop, but did not investigate the allegations of assault:

Captain Michael Robertson of the Pleasant Grove Police Department acknowledged on Tuesday the department was aware of the allegations, but said Pleasant Grove’s involvement was not about the allegations.

“The woman contacted the church leaders. She made threats she could possibly hurt someone,” Robertson said. “We went out to her home to visit her and make sure she was OK. We never investigated the alleged abuse.”

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 24e34.html

[Not Buying It]

I have to link to A Response to the LDS Newsroom’s Statement on Sexual Abuse in the MTC on Feminist Mormon Housewives. This is an incisive and scathing response. I could not have done better.

Their response was phenomenal.

[MoPag]

I have to link to A Response to the LDS Newsroom’s Statement on Sexual Abuse in the MTC on Feminist Mormon Housewives. This is an incisive and scathing response. I could not have done better.

Their response was phenomenal.

That. Was. AMAZING!!!!!!

[StarbucksMom]

This is one of the most powerful points in her response, and made my blood boil (since I haven't read/listenened to the transcript or Pres Newsroom's response)

Further, the transparent attempt to cast aspersions on the victim in this case is appalling. Being sure to snidely note that her missionary service was “brief.” Identifying her clearly as a “former Church member.” These are clear codewords intended to signal to the membership that she is not to be trusted. Of course her missionary service was brief, she was sexually assaulted by the MTC president in the MTC president’s secret sex room! Of course she is a former member of the church, she was sexually assaulted by the MTC president in the MTC president’s secret sex room!

How dare you! How dare you signal that she is not reliable, that because her story differs from the story of her abuser, despite the existence of a tape where he confirms his misdeeds, it’s too complicated for you to figure out and is “out of your hands.” It does not take a professional-level investigator to figure out why the abuser would lie about that–and fortunately, you don’t actually have a he-said/she-said dilemma in this situation because you have his admission in his own voice. How dare you attempt to make it about her moral failing instead of yours, the functional equivalent of asking “what were you wearing?” How dare you try to squelch the release of the tape by utilizing your political connections to quickly pass a law making such releases illegal–almost immediately after you yourselves admit to having learned of a tape like this! (You say you learned of the tape in January, and you pushed for this bill in February. It seemed out of the blue then, it makes sense now.)

[oliblish]

I have to link to A Response to the LDS Newsroom’s Statement on Sexual Abuse in the MTC on Feminist Mormon Housewives. This is an incisive and scathing response. I could not have done better.

My favorite paragraph:

It is full of subterfuge and victim-blaming. It is dishonest. It is evil. And it is precisely the reason these things happen: powerful institutions protect their own at the expense of victims. Even when there is proof–even when there is an audiotape of a man in his own voice admitting to molesting missionaries, acknowledging the existence of a secret sex room in the basement of the MTC, showing no surprise whatsoever at accusations of sexual assault, and being unable to definitively place the identity of the woman standing in front of him because he keeps getting her mixed up with other women.

[Not Buying It]

The Deseret News weighs in:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... ident.html