Our next 1978 moment?

[crossmyheart]

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/59114081 ... t=20180328

BYU could lose its federal funding over LGBTQ discrimination.

I predict that in a year or two the prophet may receive a sudden Revelation altering the church's position on LGBTQ issues.

[RubinHighlander]

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/59114081 ... t=20180328

BYU could lose its federal funding over LGBTQ discrimination.

I predict that in a year or two the prophet may receive a sudden Revelation altering the church's position on LGBTQ issues.

Do you mean a policy change subtly made to look like a revelation?

[Red Ryder]

I wonder if BYU takes in Title IX funds? It seems the Church is well funded enough that they could restructure so that they didn’t have to rely on any federal money. Perhaps the tithing dollars of a small country like Canada could be diverted to fund BYU. I’ll do some digging.

[crossmyheart]

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/59114081 ... t=20180328

BYU could lose its federal funding over LGBTQ discrimination.

I predict that in a year or two the prophet may receive a sudden Revelation altering the church's position on LGBTQ issues.

Do you mean a policy change subtly made to look like a revelation?

You are so right! My bad

[Red Ryder]

BYU does receive federal funding

BYU does receive federal funding, although probably not in the way you think, therefore it still has to follow Title IX. You are correct in assuming that as a private university, BYU does not receive federal funds for daily operation, but it does receive federal funds in the form of research grants and Pell grants, which means they must comply with Title IX.

This acceptance of grant money has caused issues in other areas covered by Title IX, as well, such as BYU's sex-segregated housing policy and caused many people to question the benefits of doing so. Federal meddling due to funding has caused President Hinckley to say (to Larry King, relating to humanitarian aid) that while he "appreciate[s] the offer of federal funding, we like to do ours on our own. Once the government is involved, regulations follow."

It has also received religious exemptions in the past.

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?i ... type=CMSID

Transgender students at Brigham Young University's Idaho campus are no longer protected under a federal education law designed to prevent discrimination.
After a transgender student's discrimination complaint triggered a federal investigation into the school, BYU-Idaho sought a religious waiver from extending civil rights protections to transgender students. Transitioning to a different gender conflicts with teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which owns the Rexburg school, university President Clark Gilbert argued.
In a March 15 letter to Gilbert, the U.S. Department of Education agreed that BYU-Idaho should not have to enforce some provisions of Title IX. An education department spokeswoman confirmed Friday that civil rights investigators subsequently stopped their inquiry into the student's complaint, which was related to classes and housing.

Here is a list of schools with exemptions.

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ ... -2016.html

[MoPag]

Oaks is gonna have a hissy fit.

And the TBMs are going to ramp up their persecution complex.

[Rob4Hope]

They will find a way through it. They always do.

Its like the Boy Scouts thing...there will be something they will already be working on, and when push comes to shove there will be a "revelation" (in the for or a legal policy of course) that will save the day.

[asa]

I wonder if BYU takes in Title IX funds? It seems the Church is well funded enough that they could restructure so that they didn’t have to rely on any federal money. Perhaps the tithing dollars of a small country like Canada could be diverted to fund BYU. I’ll do some digging.

Already is . Look at the required filings by all charities including the LDS church . More than 1/2 the tithing goes directly to BYU

[Mormorrisey]

I wonder if BYU takes in Title IX funds? It seems the Church is well funded enough that they could restructure so that they didn’t have to rely on any federal money. Perhaps the tithing dollars of a small country like Canada could be diverted to fund BYU. I’ll do some digging.

Everytime I hear about this, coming from "a small country" like Canada, I feel like shouting this at BYU:

https://youtu.be/iH3K2rkkU7g

Take it how you may.

[moksha]

Brigham Young University’s opposition to the United States Department of Health, Education, and Welfare’s Title IX regulations, was applauded at the recent annual meeting of the American Association of Presidents of Independent Colleges and Universities.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/02/news ... s?lang=eng

The contact address for the American Association of Presidents of Independent Colleges and Universities is listed as:

Steve Sandberg, Executive Director
PO Box 7070
Provo, UT 84602-7070

Same game plan, same methods.

[Hagoth]

I wonder if BYU takes in Title IX funds? It seems the Church is well funded enough that they could restructure so that they didn’t have to rely on any federal money. Perhaps the tithing dollars of a small country like Canada could be diverted to fund BYU. I’ll do some digging.

Already is . Look at the required filings by all charities including the LDS church . More than 1/2 the tithing goes directly to BYU

Yup. Remember when they fires all the janitors? All of that money was rerouted to BYU.

I'm looking forward to the day when the church raises the tithing percentage to give members the blessed opportunity to fight Satan's gay agenda.

[Jeffret]

It's not going to happen for a while yet. Certainly not with the current top leadership. It's long been Oaks' favorite passion. And Nelson goes along with him. Anti- gay bigotry is still pretty popular and accepted. The sex discrimination angle is just starting to catch on in the courts. With the current president the federal government certainly isn't going to push gay rights. Acceptance is growing in society, and most particularly among the younger generations but it will take increased acceptance among church members. Getting there but still a ways to go. More than 1-2 years.

"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see" (Charles Hart, "The Music of the Night")

[crossmyheart]

It's not going to happen for a while yet. Certainly not with the current top leadership. It's long been Oaks' favorite passion. And Nelson goes along with him. Anti- gay bigotry is still pretty popular and accepted. The sex discrimination angle is just starting to catch on in the courts. With the current president the federal government certainly isn't going to push gay rights. Acceptance is growing in society, and most particularly among the younger generations but it will take increased acceptance among church members. Getting there but still a ways to go. More than 1-2 years.

You are right- the civil rights movement was in the 60's and it took until 1978 for the church to come around.

So maybe 2028 or so? And 10 years after that, members will say- "we never discriminated against gays- they were always accepted!"

[Jeffret]

You are right- the civil rights movement was in the 60's and it took until 1978 for the church to come around.

So maybe 2028 or so? And 10 years after that, members will say- "we never discriminated against gays- they were always accepted!"

Perception regarding LGBT folks has changed dramatically in recent years and acceptance has rapidly grown. Far faster than I would've expected. Even though I thought Prop 8 was going to be a turning point, I was surprised at how rapidly things changed after that. Still, it's going to take a while for the LDS Church to come around. Patriarchy, and by extension heterosexuality, is so interwoven into the Mormon doctrine, policy, and culture that I have no idea how they're ever going to extricate themselves from this one. It'll have to happen, but it's much more dramatic and fundamental than the 1978 change was. 2028 may be about right.

[Reuben]

I think it'll take a series of steps to get gay marriage in the temple:

• Stop penalizing gay marriage
• Recognize earthly validity of gay marriage
• Lift priesthood ban on women
• Gay sealings

The thing that really keeps me up at night is wondering where to chronologically place baptism of robots.

[Corsair]

Perception regarding LGBT folks has changed dramatically in recent years and acceptance has rapidly grown. Far faster than I would've expected. Even though I thought Prop 8 was going to be a turning point, I was surprised at how rapidly things changed after that. Still, it's going to take a while for the LDS Church to come around. Patriarchy, and by extension heterosexuality, is so interwoven into the Mormon doctrine, policy, and culture that I have no idea how they're ever going to extricate themselves from this one. It'll have to happen, but it's much more dramatic and fundamental than the 1978 change was. 2028 may be about right.

The fundamental change to doctrine needed to fully integrate LGBT members seems beyond the capacity for the institutional church to comprehend. What would the endoment and sealing ordinance look like? While I can imagine what they might need look like, I am examining the 15 men that it would have to pass through before it was put into place in the temple. In 1978, nothing in the temple implied any race based doctrine. Yes, the actors were white, but it was not mentioned like the man/woman dichotomy.

Besides that, the PR and membership fallout could be catastrophic. Every other conservative Christian sect in the world would condemn the LDS church for falling to social pressure. The conservative apostasy from within the church would sharply thin the ranks of potential LDS leadership. I don't think that the pressure from more progressive elements inside or outside the church is anywhere close to what would be needed to make that change.

I really don't think that the church is close to losing tax exemption. This is particularly evident in a country that elected Donald Trump. Yes, I know that it was close, but it was not overwhelming for either side. Perhaps if Hillary had earned 80% of the popular vote and 95% of the electoral vote it might have been an issue.

But the LDS church hardly stands along on this position. Pope Francis is the most liberal man to occupy the Holy See in a long time, but he is not issuing an encyclical to change Roman Catholic doctrine. Conservative Evangelicals and Orthodox Christianity are less likely to make that kind of change. Could the LDS church prove me wrong? The church has a long history of not proving us wrong on many, many issues.

[Brent]

Imagine the test of faith it would be.

[wtfluff]

The thing that really keeps me up at night is wondering where to chronologically place baptism of robots.

As soon as the robots are sentient enough to start earning their own money... LDS-Inc. will gladly accept 10% in exchange for baptism.

[Jeffret]

I agree with you on all the reasons why it won't happen, Corsair. On the other hand, ten years ago, I never would have expected the current situation to exist 10 years later. We've had nationwide gay marriage for almost 3 years. And the big wave started in Utah. Gays are out of the closet at BYU. Active Mormons support gays and gay marriage without getting kicked out. They march in parades and attend rallies. LGBT acceptance is still pretty low in Utah, but it has spiked around the nation and climbed in Utah.

If things continue as they have been, I like we'll see some significant changes in another 10 years. What changes are very hard to predict. If it were just about gays, I'd be less confident, except for everything that is going on with regards to women. There are huge connections between feminism and LGBT acceptance. Nationally, things are changing quite a bit for women. Lots more attention. All of the stuff with #MeToo. And lots more women activists. In Mormonism, the MTC rape cases are having at least some impact. And Sam's activities. Maybe just around the periphery so far, but they're shifting the discussion and expectation. I don't think they're going to just go away. If nothing else, the stories Sam has collected are valuable.

[Can of Worms]

I wonder if BYU takes in Title IX funds? It seems the Church is well funded enough that they could restructure so that they didn’t have to rely on any federal money. Perhaps the tithing dollars of a small country like Canada could be diverted to fund BYU. I’ll do some digging.

Already is . Look at the required filings by all charities including the LDS church . More than 1/2 the tithing goes directly to BYU

The way the Church transfers (funnels? diverts? plunders? struggling to find the right word) from Canada to BYU is a sore point for me. In 2016, the Church receipted $167.6M for donations. Of that, over 65% goes to BYUs ($60M to BYU; $39M to BYU-I; and $10.875M to BYU-H).

Back when I paid tithing I assumed that it was used to support programs and people in need. If only I had known then.....