Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

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Hermey
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Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by Hermey » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:44 pm

North Korea much?

Apparently, it looks like the quarterly reporting/interview notes, etc. will be going down on your permanent record at the COB via a soon-to-be released LDS Tools app. I wonder what information (and how detailed) can bet entered (and quietly or unwittingly transmitted to the COB) by local leaders? We all already know that Mormon Jesus doesn't forgive or forget.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W3l8aS ... UAEqD/view

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Corsair
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by Corsair » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:11 pm

I have a list of things that concern me, but whatever "reporting" is done on the quarterly report is not going on that list. One attitude and principle that most of us need to hold closely is the simple knowledge that they need us more than we need them. What could they possibly put on my permanent record that would bother me? Whatever belief in God and Christianity I retain exists quite independent of the institutional LDS church.

I attend as part of my personal service to my family and friends in my ward. I already don't pay tithing and haven't done home teaching in years. Suddenly my record is wiped clean and I am looking around amused at whatever my ward earnestly stumbles towards in this new program.

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Hermey
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by Hermey » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:32 pm

Details from the MTC president's rape victim's membership records where used to smear her.

In an effort to streamline communication and be more efficient, I could see them making it where the local leaders would be able to enter notes/info about the subject family/individual under the guise of more effective ministering efforts. The COB would automatically get a copy of it tagged to the membership record(s). Who knows what could get put in there or how it could be used in the future.

Think of it as a local extension as eyes and ears of the SCMC. Just sayin'....
Last edited by Hermey on Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Palerider
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by Palerider » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:36 pm

So after reading about the new "ministering", it sounds a little different from what was drilled into our heads for the last 50 years.

D&C 20

"The teacher’s duty is to watch over the church always, and be with and strengthen them;

54 And see that there is no iniquity in the church, neither hardness with each other, neither lying, backbiting, nor evil speaking;

55 And see that the church meet together often, and also see that all the members do their duty."

Of course the Elders and Priests are similar to the Teachers in responsibility. But what happens to all this stuff that is enumerated here? All this time the home teaching was really the pointy end of the stick to increase member work production and NOW they suddenly become Christlike "ministers"?

This truly is a revelation.....a move away from the D&C as scripture that needs to be esteemed as authoritative.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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deacon blues
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by deacon blues » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:39 am

I'm betting Home Teaching will be like the law of consecration; it didn't work, so it will be discarded; but the new "ministering" concept is being born and still could be interpreted in many different ways. What will it be like when it grows up?
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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oliver_denom
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by oliver_denom » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:59 am

It sounds like they are only gathering some Yes / No information:

Was a ministering interview conducted with this member this quarter? Y/N
“You want to know something? We are still in the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages--they haven't ended yet.” - Vonnegut

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1smartdodog
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by 1smartdodog » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:18 am

Why would I care about what notes they are taking. Not like they can extort me or anything.
“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison

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Corsair
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by Corsair » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:33 am

Every bishop and stake president is scrambling to staff their new Elders Quorum. Reports have come in from existing quorum presidencies that their access to the official leadership websites was removed before the end of Sunday after Nelson made the big announcement.

At this point no one knows what will be reported. I'm guessing that we have at least one month of non-reporting followed by several months of poorly implemented reporting. October conference will be filled with inspiring stories of wards that stumbled into a good system and saw a few inactives return to church. But we are a long way from this being fully functional. I don't know when the church will fully comprehend the forum members on this website and be able to report on them.

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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by Reuben » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:11 am

Corsair wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:33 am
I don't know when the church will fully comprehend the forum members on this website and be able to report on them.
Never? I mean, we're pretty incomprehensible.

I'm sure if the church ever moves beyond "Interviewed ministers of Y/N?" we would see very few interesting reports. Most of them will be one of "Lazy," "Offended," "Wants to sin," and "WTF!" (where of course "F" means "Flip").
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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Corsair
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by Corsair » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:20 am

Reuben wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:11 am
I'm sure if the church ever moves beyond "Interviewed ministers of Y/N?" we would see very few interesting reports. Most of them will be one of "Lazy," "Offended," "Wants to sin," and "WTF!" (where of course "F" means "Flip").
The language is getting in the way. I am lazy enough to not want to do home teaching or attend the temple because I think it's a waste of time. I am offended by the history, doctrine, and policies of the church. I do want to commit some of the sins that are condemned by the church because I don't think they are sins (Hello, Coffee and Rated R movies!)

These accusations are true, but any critical inquiry stops at "I am offended" and does not proceed into "by the history, doctine, and policies of the church." The stories about being offended by church members are the silliest of narratives that do not touch on the existential crisis burning inside our minds once we can't unsee the foundational problems of the church despite any good done by the church today.

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Palerider
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by Palerider » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:47 am

Corsair wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:20 am
The stories about being offended by church members are the silliest of narratives that do not touch on the existential crisis burning inside our minds once we can't unsee the foundational problems of the church despite any good done by the church today.
Very well put. +1
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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hiding in plain sight
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by hiding in plain sight » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:22 am

If anyone is interested my wife is the RSP and I can look at what she will be asked to report in the interview process. At this point, it looks more like a report that you did the interviews as opposed to what was actually said. But more to come as this develops.

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2bizE
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by 2bizE » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:52 am

I think the title is misleading. It is only big brother watching. Big sister doesn’t have the powerful priesthood, so she is not able to participate.
~2bizE

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Hermey
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by Hermey » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:05 pm

2bizE wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:52 am
I think the title is misleading. It is only big brother watching. Big sister doesn’t have the powerful priesthood, so she is not able to participate.
:lol: :lol: So true!

hiding in plain sight wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:22 am
If anyone is interested my wife is the RSP and I can look at what she will be asked to report in the interview process. At this point, it looks more like a report that you did the interviews as opposed to what was actually said. But more to come as this develops.
Oh, heck yeah!

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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by Bremguy » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:16 pm

Corsair wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:33 am
Every bishop and stake president is scrambling to staff their new Elders Quorum. Reports have come in from existing quorum presidencies that their access to the official leadership websites was removed before the end of Sunday after Nelson made the big announcement.
I hope in the scramble to fill the new Elders Quorum, I am one who will go overlooked and long forgotten, the perfect time to slow down my attendance. I have been the HP Secretary for 7 years. As of 6 07 pm on Wednesday, April 4th, I havent had any calls for any of the new positions from anyone. Which is fine by me.

I just wonder what will be on a record ? One thing I would suggest, is this a DNC. Nothing is worse than going to visit a family only to be yelled at or threatened. Not knowing they are a DNC.
Live Long and Prosper

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moksha
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by moksha » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:47 am

Most information for dossiers will be gathered from Church attorneys interviewing ward leaders and members for the needed dirt to hinder those who potentially could sue the Church or been exposed by the covert detection of the SCMC.

This change along with the elimination a certain priesthood meeting will hopefully reduce the stress of too many Church demands on members.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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hiding in plain sight
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by hiding in plain sight » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:48 am

Hermey wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:05 pm
hiding in plain sight wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:22 am
If anyone is interested my wife is the RSP and I can look at what she will be asked to report in the interview process. At this point, it looks more like a report that you did the interviews as opposed to what was actually said. But more to come as this develops.
Oh, heck yeah!
I looked at my wife's instructions for the ministering program last night. At first blush it looks like the report will include the list of people interviewed by quarter. It counts if even only one of the ministering partnership is in the interview, as a complete interview. It didn't say anything about reporting the details of what was discussed about any of the families.

But this is week one. I will stay close and see if it evolves over the next couple of months.

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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by Reuben » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:30 am

Relevant information on what the church can and does keep records of at the COB: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... rch_keeps/
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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græy
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by græy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:03 am

I'm happy to report any details of what gets recorded. As of now, it really still looks like a numbers game. I.e. # of families that were home-tau... I mean... ministered unto.

We have received specific direction to report 2017 quarterly reports as we always have done. Ministering visits (MV?) won't be reported to SLC at all until 3rd quarter 2018, by which time most EQP should be called and have the system at least marginally in place. After that point quarterly interviews with at least one member of each MV companionship are supposed to happen so that ward leadership can ascertain the well-being of families/members. The report to SLC will still just be a raw number though.

If I see/hear anything more, especially anything new or unexpected, I'll return and report.
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oliver_denom
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Re: Big Brother/Big Sister is Watching (and reporting) On You....

Post by oliver_denom » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:29 am

I hopped on the website and had a look at the changes. First of all, the organization of "ministering" is exactly like home and visiting teaching. The website lists families who are "unassigned" and companionships who are "assigned" to each family. You can also break companionships into different districts for interviews.

The ONLY differences between this and the home / visiting teaching program is that now young women can be companions to adult women in the same way that young men could be companions to adult men. Also, they've replaced the previous report where you select a family as visited, and replaced it with a report where you select a companionship as having been interviewed. Here's the exact instruction as it is now:
Lds.org wrote:As announced in April 2018 general conference, home teaching and visiting teaching have been replaced by a common effort called "ministering" (see ministering.lds.org). Since leaders will no longer report the number of contacts with individuals and families, the ability to enter or view contacts or visits has been removed. Beginning August 1, 2018, leaders will have the ability to (1) account for interviews they hold with ministering brothers and sisters and (2) assign Laurels and Mia Maids as companions to Relief Society sisters. Elders quorum ministering coordinators will also be able to log in at that time.
“You want to know something? We are still in the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages--they haven't ended yet.” - Vonnegut

L'enfer, c'est les autres - JP

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