NOM

What do you think of the idea that, once we focus on our personal desire to return to Heaven, we have missed the very message of Jesus which is a call to help others and bring a world of sorrow to one of peace?

moksha wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:52 pm

What do you think of the idea that, once we focus on our personal desire to return to Heaven, we have missed the very message of Jesus which is a call to help others and bring a world of sorrow to one of peace?

I like the idea of believing in life before death, as Mark Crego said. Let's live our lives, full of empathy and connection to other people.

A woman in RS last week challenged everyone to look out for young adults who have aged out of foster care, and how human connection is not usually available for many of them. That's one example of so much we can do in the here and now instead of obsessing about the afterlife.

moksha wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:52 pm

What do you think of the idea that, once we focus on our personal desire to return to Heaven, we have missed the very message of Jesus which is a call to help others and bring a world of sorrow to one of peace?

I like it. It helps remove "it'll all be made better in the next life" as an excuse for inaction or for obedience without critical thought.

Before I became an agnostic Christian, I had already somehow found grace within LDS theology. It allowed me to forget about my own reward in heaven and just serve. I think that's how a life following Jesus is supposed to work. We don't ignore our reward in heaven because it would be a sin to focus on it instead of focusing on others, or because we think we're unworthy of it, but because we already have it. We're free to follow Jesus without getting bogged down in self-centered guilt and shame.

I like it very much I think the world would be a better place if we just focused on service to others . I'm sure we would be rewarded but we also wouldn't have to worry about that if we had the confidence to believe !

moksha wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:52 pm

What do you think of the idea that, once we focus on our personal desire to return to Heaven, we have missed the very message of Jesus which is a call to help others and bring a world of sorrow to one of peace?

One thing that has always bothered me about allegedly "spiritual" people is that many of them often seem so focused on their own spiritual development and exaltation and are less concerned about others - which is really what it is all about in my book. I don't have a lot of respect for the self-proclaimed scriptorian who is a jerk to people. The times in my life I was trying hardest to be "spiritual" is when I was the most self-absorbed and least of service to anyone else. For example, on my mission I was so hyper-focused on "obedience" I didn't much bother with loving or serving the people. I was being as obedient as I could, and that's all that mattered, to hell with everyone else.

The way you said it says it pretty much perfectly.

Reuben wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:01 am

Before I became an agnostic Christian...

Sorry abut the Reuben, this is a classification that I had never thought of. Do you consider your agnostic Christian as that same thing as Leslie Weatherhead's definition of a Christian Agnostic?

A person who is immensely attracted by Christ and who seeks to show his spirit, to meet the challenges, hardships and sorrows of life in the light of that spirit, but who, though he is sure of many Christian truths, feels that he cannot honestly and conscientiously 'sign on the dotted line' that he believes certain theological ideas about which some branches of the church dogmatize...His intellectual integrity makes him say about many things, 'It may be so. I do not know'.

Sorry about the thread jack.

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:59 am

Reuben wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:01 am

Before I became an agnostic Christian...

Sorry abut the Reuben, this is a classification that I had never thought of. Do you consider your agnostic Christian as that same thing as Leslie Weatherhead's definition of a Christian Agnostic?

A person who is immensely attracted by Christ and who seeks to show his spirit, to meet the challenges, hardships and sorrows of life in the light of that spirit, but who, though he is sure of many Christian truths, feels that he cannot honestly and conscientiously 'sign on the dotted line' that he believes certain theological ideas about which some branches of the church dogmatize...His intellectual integrity makes him say about many things, 'It may be so. I do not know'.

Sorry about the thread jack.

This sounds right. I believe in grace (but not sin - that's all in our heads), loving, serving, lifting, healing, and breaking down class and tribal barriers. Jesus's example is a great template for it, and though I can't say that the man himself was divine, I find a spark of what I can only call divinity in what he was said to have done and taught.

Thanks for the search terms! I've been trying out different labels for what I believe for weeks now. This should help a lot.

I'm not sure this is all that much of a thread jack, for what it's worth. Given my beliefs, it almost goes without saying that focusing on your own reward in heaven entirely misses the point. I think a lot of people, if they put their secular beliefs in terms of Christianity, would agree with the idea moksha is asking about.

Well feathered friend, I'm going to add my agnostic view. I let go of any dogmatic view of an afterlife and God and put it all into the "I just don't know and don't worry about it anymore" bucket. With that it's brought me much peace and happiness with my life here on Earth. I believe doing good is just good and has no dogmatic strings attached. There are no more points taken away or added to a score in some other world, based on how I'm living life here. I think the altruistic concepts like the golden rule are all good and need no other magic attached to them.

For me it feels a great burden has been lifted because there's no more interpretation of dogma, no more cogdis or mental gymnastics to try and make a magical world view work. Now I'm left with only intrigue and great interest in the science of the universe and all other sciences associated with life. It took a while to settle into the path of continual discovery and an unknown purpose of life, but this has allowed me to entertain that there may be no purpose, just existence. To many good folks who stick with religion, lack of a strong belief in a god or afterlife may seem sad and meaningless. Indeed I used to believe that to be the case. Of course now I feel there was so much BS attached to all the things humans made up to fill in that science of the gaps. I guess that is the advantage I see of having lived in both worlds now. Or maybe I'm just too lazy, cynical and suspicious of religion to ever want to give it a try again. Fool me once...

Reuben wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:58 pm

I've been trying out different labels for what I believe for weeks now. This should help a lot.

You might want to look into this: https://www.amazon.com/Christian-Agnost ... n+Agnostic