Polygamy In Heaven

[alas]

But as I said in my post in the other thread, where has there ever been a group that practiced polygamy where it wasn’t coercive, abusive, and generally just bad for a substantial number of the women in the group?

I don't have personal experience, but do any of these qualify?

More Than Two

What It's Like to Be in a Polyamorous Relationship

Married, With Infidelities

Dating experts explain polyamory and open relationships

How to Make Polyamorous Relationships Work

New Sexual Revolution: Polyamory May Be Good for You

Keep in mind that I'm not advocating for any of these situations nor am I interested in any of these polyamorous relationships any more than I'm interested in a gay relationship (both of those come in a zero interest). I just think the earlier statement is overreaching. In a closed or semi-closed group it may be true, but I'm not convinced it is as certain for a minority situation in a larger group. I'd have to deny what these people share to make that claim and I don't know how I can do that any better in this case than with any other number of subgroups or characteristics in which I lack personal experience.

I don't have *personal* experience either, but when my daughter got into a threesome, I told her it wouldn't last because there is a lack of equality in a threesome. She tried to explain to me the difference between polygamy and polyamory and I told her the same thing applies and I didn't care if she and the other woman were having sex, either the split would be along the married couple side, or the split would be the two women ganging up on the guy, or the split would be that she would start to feel betrayed that he had a relationship with her that was something more that what he had with my daughter. But there is a power imballance in a threesome and they almost never last because somebody gets unhappy. They may stay because they feel trapped, but that does not mean the relationship is working. When the other two decided it was time to get pregnant without talking to her, she felt betrayed. The other woman decided she didn't want to raise a baby with *him* and went home to mama, and my daughter decided to divorce him because she couldn't trust him. But for about six months, they were all happy.

So, my opinion is that these relationships are inherently unstable, although they may claim it is bliss. It is like mixed orientation marriages, there is a built in instability.

But then, I don't think men are "genetically programmed" to live polygamy because they can never keep all the wives happy, and if they are not forced by law, culture, supporting children, or something the unhappy wives will leave. Seals who are genetically programmed to be polygamous don't have the problem of keeping the wives happy. Being the biggest baddest male keeps the wives happy. Human women do not have "the biggest baddest male" as their top priority. Human women look for the ability to protect and provide for children and what kind of father the guy will make, and polygamy lessens those traits.

[StarbucksMom]

Blackmormon,
After reading your op here and post on the other thread about surveying LDS youth on gay marriage, it is evident that polygamy, polyandry, and marrying a much younger woman than yourself really appeal to you. All these arrangements/sentiments scream "Women are sex objects" to me. Just hope you realize that in the year 2018, this isn't going to go over too well here in the US even if it becomes legal.

So, lucky you, there are a few options.
1- You could move to Manti and try to break into the polygamy scene. Just a word of caution though, if you're married and your wife decides to divorce you, you're outta luck. My husband's uncle tried this. He had a beautiful wife, a great job as an engineer, and 8 kids, and decided polygamy was God's will for him. Shockingly, his wife didn't agree and wouldn't go to Manti with him. So he left everything, and married only one woman there because you're not allowed to take a second wife if the 1st won't consent/participate. (true story. Happened years ago and wife got an atty and seized all husband's assets including retirement acct. She recently remarried a successful man who's not a POS.)

2- You could move to the middle east. I hear real estate is super cheap in Syria right now.

[Jeffret]

I don't have *personal* experience either, but when my daughter got into a threesome, I told her it wouldn't last because there is a lack of equality in a threesome. She tried to explain to me the difference between polygamy and polyamory and I told her the same thing applies and I didn't care if she and the other woman were having sex, either the split would be along the married couple side, or the split would be the two women ganging up on the guy, or the split would be that she would start to feel betrayed that he had a relationship with her that was something more that what he had with my daughter. But there is a power imballance in a threesome and they almost never last because somebody gets unhappy. They may stay because they feel trapped, but that does not mean the relationship is working. When the other two decided it was time to get pregnant without talking to her, she felt betrayed. The other woman decided she didn't want to raise a baby with *him* and went home to mama, and my daughter decided to divorce him because she couldn't trust him. But for about six months, they were all happy.

So, my opinion is that these relationships are inherently unstable, although they may claim it is bliss. It is like mixed orientation marriages, there is a built in instability.

I tend to agree but I realize I'm just speaking from my biases and experiences. I could say similar things about many other situations that are none of my business. To a lesser degree, I could say something similar about mixed faith relationships. Or there is a tendency to say something about interracial marriages. Or in some cultures, mixed class relationships. While some of these situations may have varying degrees of statistical difficulties, none of them are really my business. As long as everyone is fully consenting. (Now if my child were involved it still wouldn't really be my business but it would be harder to accept that. And here we're getting back to another current thread, "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?")

Life is unstable. And some people like to just teeter on the edge.

[RubinHighlander]

My position is that, if gay marriage is law and acceptable now, so should all other forms of marriage, including polygamy among consenting and mentally capable adults. I am not saying that I personally would engage in that but I think equality should cover all types of marriage arrangements IF that's the route society wants to follow now and in the future.

From another thread you posted: I would like to see the return of polygamy and polyandry later on. Otherwise we are just promoting and supporting LGTB and not other marriage union choices that should not be Illegal and discriminated against.

The problem I have with legalizing polygamist marriages right now is that it's in the hands of fundamentalist religions who abuse it. If we can get rid of those crazy controlling religions, then we can let adults decide what adults want to do with their consent with each other. Religions treat their members like children, the leadership convincing them they have all the answers and know how to better manage their lives and decisions than they do. Think about how the LDS church talks to it's members in conference and through it's scripture and correlated narrative - they are all little children or should be like little children and submit. Legalizing polygamy now just gives the abusers the right to keep abusing. Anytime dogma wraps it's distorted views and rules around something it's going to be abused in some way.

[BlackMormon]

Blackmormon,
After reading your op here and post on the other thread about surveying LDS youth on gay marriage, it is evident that polygamy, polyandry, and marrying a much younger woman than yourself really appeal to you. All these arrangements/sentiments scream "Women are sex objects" to me. Just hope you realize that in the year 2018, this isn't going to go over too well here in the US even if it becomes legal.

So, lucky you, there are a few options.
1- You could move to Manti and try to break into the polygamy scene. Just a word of caution though, if you're married and your wife decides to divorce you, you're outta luck. My husband's uncle tried this. He had a beautiful wife, a great job as an engineer, and 8 kids, and decided polygamy was God's will for him. Shockingly, his wife didn't agree and wouldn't go to Manti with him. So he left everything, and married only one woman there because you're not allowed to take a second wife if the 1st won't consent/participate. (true story. Happened years ago and wife got an atty and seized all husband's assets including retirement acct. She recently remarried a successful man who's not a POS.)

2- You could move to the middle east. I hear real estate is super cheap in Syria right now.

Quit being so judgmental. My point was that if the laws of the U.S. allow men to marry men and women to marry women, the laws should also equally allow other forms of marriage. I don't see women as sex objects at all but I do see some as too annoying, which would make plural marriage intolerable for me anyway.

[Not Buying It]

Quit being so judgmental. My point was that if the laws of the U.S. allow men to marry men and women to marry women, the laws should also equally allow other forms of marriage. I don't see women as sex objects at all but I do see some as too annoying, which would make plural marriage intolerable for me anyway.

Wow, not sure you helped yourself there. We really aren’t judgmental here on NOM, but if a person makes comments that are seen as objectifying or demeaning women, I don’t think it’s unfair if they are called out on it.

[alas]

Quit being so judgmental. My point was that if the laws of the U.S. allow men to marry men and women to marry women, the laws should also equally allow other forms of marriage. I don't see women as sex objects at all but I do see some as too annoying, which would make plural marriage intolerable for me anyway.

Wow, not sure you helped yourself there. We really aren’t judgmental here on NOM, but if a person makes comments that are seen as objectifying or demeaning women, I don’t think it’s unfair if they are called out on it.

Yeah, I think you just dug yourself in deeper. See, you are not even listening to our arguments, but accusing us of being judgemental for pointing out the flaws in yours.

OK, to sum up the arguments against polygamy, one man does not equal three women. Got that fact? So, saying that because one man can marry one man, then logically he should be allowed to marry three women is NOT logical. One man may be equal to one woman according to the law, so that one man can legally marry one woman or one man, his choice. But he may not marry three women because one man is not equal to three women.

Other arguments are that

1. polygamy has only ever worked in societies where women are seen as property, not humans.
2. Polygamy is always associated with the abuse of women and children, forced and underage marriages.
3. The marriage laws would have to be completely rewritten.
4. There is always the problem of too many men when some men marry more than their share.
5. Canada did a study of child development and found the children raised in polygamy did not do as well, but studies have shown that children of same sex marriage do as well.
6. Divorce laws would have to be rewritten to factor in multiple partners.