Are TBMs Actually Offended By True Doctrine?

[Mad Jax]

I was remembering something that happened years back when some TBM friends and I (who was pretty much TBM at the time) brought up talk about the millennial reign, resurrection, etc. This subject, of course, has come up a few times with people, and some memories stood out.

The first one was when it was mentioned that it wasn't only members of the church who would be present on earth during the millennium (which is in the manuals), and I mentioned being relieved at not being fed a steady diet of Utah jello for a thousand years straight. A few members with a little Moksha in them enjoyed my remark, but for others it went over like snow cones in December. I remember thinking - do they or do they not actually believe that real people will be around during that time and that they'll be carrying on as normal? Why is the idea of being an actual person with actual ideas about what they will want to eat such an offensive topic?

The other remark involved my plans for having a resurrected, perfected body. Since we're always being told what miracles we're going to be able to perform after resurrection, I remarked that I was going to hit light speed and fly through the sun at the first opportunity. 100% serious. I mean, why wouldn't I? Again, the accusations of being light minded and trifling with sacred things. I had to stop and wonder if the thought of this possibility was considered mockery was because they didn't actually believe what was being taught? As if to think about what one might do if what was taught was truly real was going too far? Does that reveal something or am I just interpreting a knee-jerk reaction the wrong way?

[Hagoth]

Maybe it's that Mormons are embarrassed by doctrine when they hear it spoken out loud in non-scriptural-sounding vernacular. They are not offended by the doctrine itself so much as they are offended by the discomfort of someone laying it out there in plain sight and making them realize how silly it is.

[BlackMormon]

Bring up the doctrine of polygamy or just say that JS had many wives besides Emma and most TBMs feel very uncomfortable. Over the years I have learned to keep my mouth shut when I am in Provo with TBMs. It's best not to say or imply ANYTHING that might indicate that you're not following the program,

[alas]

If you point out to people the actual wording of the temple, many are offended and insist that the words do not mean what they say. Things like "it is all symbolic" are excuses to get around it saying what it really says. Saying that the husband is "standing proxy for the Lord" when the husband takes his wife through the veil is another example of insisting that what happens in the temple does not mean what it clearly means is another. Another example is (how did Clinton word it? "It depends on what your definition of "is" is.") well, it depends on what your definition of "as" is. The wife is to obey her husband as he obeys the Lord. But many women interpret that to mean they obey their husband "if" he obeys the Lord. So, that "as" means "when" rather than "like". The preferred meaning would be "like" in this construction because there is a parallel drawn between the husband obeys God, the wife obey the husband. But people get very offended if you point this out. I even had a temple president yell at me and tell me that my attitude would take me to hell, for pointing out what the words really said.

[Perfigliano]

I think it's because the doctrine itself is rarely offensive. It's the implications of the doctrine that is offensive.

With polygamy: okay, so a man can marry multiple women... That's okay, I guess... But the practice was done in secret and thus the implications are that it tends to be abusive and highly questionable in other ways.

[Reuben]

I think Hagoth has it right for your flying-through-the-sun example. The LDS church does an awful lot to make its metaphysics feel real; for example, temple work reifies the Mormon afterlife. It all hangs together well enough as long as you don't relate it too much to actual reality. As soon as you do that, you break the compartmentalization that maintains the spell. There was a fine thread on here a while back about celestial procreation that illustrated this wonderfully.

As for the green Jell-o example... well, Mormons derive a great deal of self-esteem from believing they belong to a religion that's superior to all others. Listeners with some moshka would realize that this superiority doesn't extend to every dimension on which you would compare it to another group, such as culinary choices. Everyone else, whose well-being relies on superiority, would feel threatened. In other words, I think you pushed their "We're always the best!" button.

[AdmiralHoldo]

My husband freaked out the other day because Facebook helpfully showed him a comment I left on the Stuff You Missed In Sunday School page (thanks, FB!) He "expressed concern" that the things they post are not very faith promoting. I asked him if he thought they were untrue - were the admin of the page just inventing racist/sexist/homophobic/unscientific quotes wholecloth and then *attributing* them to past church leaders. He is of the opinion that it doesn't matter if the quotes are true, it only matters that they are not faith promoting.

[Corsair]

The other remark involved my plans for having a resurrected, perfected body. Since we're always being told what miracles we're going to be able to perform after resurrection, I remarked that I was going to hit light speed and fly through the sun at the first opportunity. 100% serious.

This is an excellent bucket list item.

I mean, why wouldn't I? Again, the accusations of being light minded

Within the Special Theory of Relativity, the Lorenz transformation equation ends up dividing by zero if you go the speed of light and then tries to find the square root of a negative number if you go faster. As a result, you literally would be "light minded" and experience all time and space simultaneously if you tried this fantastic plan. This would be an excellent first episode of "Myth Busters: Millennium Edition".

But it's also the kind of thing that bothers believers when you take seriously the implications and logical conclusions of so many doctrines of the LDS church. Joseph Smith was a people person, not a scholar or logician. He simply made up a lot of doctrine without thinking through the implications. Your average ward member today doesn't like to venture beyond the Fourth Article of Faith sprinkled with temple attendance. The kindly woman who teaches Gospel Doctrine class in my ward assumes that any doctrine that is actually important would be proclaimed in General Conference. Since we now are focused on ministering, having some nuanced interpretation of Orson Pratt's teachings can be safely ignored.

LDS leadership benefits from this situation. Some old High Priest who clings to his first edition of McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine" is not known as a scholar of deep doctrine. He's considered kind of a nut even though this High Priest is actually taking the doctrine of the LDS church more seriously than anyone else.

[nibbler]

The other remark involved my plans for having a resurrected, perfected body. Since we're always being told what miracles we're going to be able to perform after resurrection, I remarked that I was going to hit light speed and fly through the sun at the first opportunity. 100% serious.

This is an excellent bucket list item.

Can an eternal being have a bucket list? Is that question enough to draw a stink eye from an orthodox believer?

Again, the accusations of being light minded and trifling with sacred things.

I don't hold much to be sacred (life is too short to be taken too seriously) and I also don't hold back at home so I get in trouble for this all the time. Where I think I get into trouble is that other people interpret my remarks in a mocking tone. Taking your example:

You say: I'm going to hit light speed and fly through the sun at the first opportunity.
They hear: You fools actually believe that you'll have a resurrected body and can do absolutely anything with it? Could you nuke a burrito so hot that you couldn't eat it? You simpletons. I mean, how stupid do you have to be to believe...

Doesn't matter if you are serious. They hear the comment about you wanting to do something they deem silly with this most sacred of gifts ever and you'll come across as mocking.

Some people want heaven to be like the 3 hour block, reverent (also known as boring and dead silent). We should only be of the attitude of weeping and doing our best to pay off the debt we owe god, you thinking of ways to have fun is irreverent. Some people just have a stick up their butts. Some people think that they'll earn community/heaven gold stars by policing your thoughts.

[Mad Jax]

The other remark involved my plans for having a resurrected, perfected body. Since we're always being told what miracles we're going to be able to perform after resurrection, I remarked that I was going to hit light speed and fly through the sun at the first opportunity. 100% serious.

This is an excellent bucket list item.

I mean, why wouldn't I? Again, the accusations of being light minded

Within the Special Theory of Relativity, the Lorenz transformation equation ends up dividing by zero if you go the speed of light and then tries to find the square root of a negative number if you go faster. As a result, you literally would be "light minded" and experience all time and space simultaneously if you tried this fantastic plan. This would be an excellent first episode of "Myth Busters: Millennium Edition".

I humbly award you the internet for the day good sir.

As always I think the responses help me see things I never considered. Also, it's clear that when they offered me super powers, they weren't expecting me to pick the Silver Surfer.