NOM

I have read stories of Bruce McConkie, and it appears he really was a bully. I've also been surprised at things published in the Answer To Gospel Questions by Joseph Fielding Smith. I heard someone say that JFS hd a "cavalier attitude". After I read portions of that book, it became clear HE DID.

Anyone have examples?

To be fair, examples of GAs doing good are also welcome...

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑

Tue May 08, 2018 11:30 am

I have read stories of Bruce McConkie, and it appears he really was a bully. I've also been surprised at things published in the Answer To Gospel Questions by Joseph Fielding Smith. I heard someone say that JFS hd a "cavalier attitude". After I read portions of that book, it became clear HE DID.

What is amazing about Bruce McConkie is the way his mind worked. Any thought that popped into his head that made logical sense to him was how the universe operated. Absolutely and without question. Period. And anybody who disagreed with him was evil. It takes a certain kind of brashness to have that kind of attitude. To be someone who would "know" he was right enough to write a book like "Mormon Doctrine". He believed he had all the answers.

His wife may have been attracted to him because he reminded her of her father, Joseph Fielding Smith, one of the biggest culprits at hiding church history there has ever been.

Joseph Fielding Smith was trying to railroad Dr. Sterling McMurrin out of the Church until President David O. McKay stepped in and halted that inquisition. By that time everybody had a bellyful of the cutthroat tactics of Senator Joseph McCarthy and President McKay wanted to steer a course away from that base disregard for human decency.

Not sure this counts, but read Eliza Young’s “Wife No. 19” and it paints a clear picture of Brigham Young as a bully.

I remember one instance from years ago back when I first stopped attending. Bednar revoked an apostolic blessing. There was a blog post that supported this account in addition to this forum's version, but I can't find it any longer. It got me searching for other priggish behavior by Bednar. There are many such accounts out there (anecdotal mostly).

http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthread ... c-blessing

It's not bullying, but Holland's interview with the BBC in 2012 also stood out to me as cringeworthy GA behavior. The famous "I am not a dodo" is at the end of this video compilation.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2n2ggb

Plenty of second-hand anecdotal stories, but of course, they're second-hand.

Looking at the way that Bednar's wife cowers around him makes me believe that he's a genuine bully...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPBsWbopjXU

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Tue May 08, 2018 4:00 pm

Plenty of second-hand anecdotal stories, but of course, they're second-hand.

Looking at the way that Bednar's wife cowers around him makes me believe that he's a genuine bully...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPBsWbopjXU

I've seen video of Bednar's wife cowering, and I've also looked at Bednar's face at those moments. He is a master "mask wearer". I can't see where that guy is behind the walls he has up all the time. To me that is a sign of a dangerous person--someone with deep agenda.

Kalikala wrote: ↑

Tue May 08, 2018 2:14 pm

Not sure this counts, but read Eliza Young’s “Wife No. 19” and it paints a clear picture of Brigham Young as a bully.

It does count. BY was a big giant A$$HOLE....plain and simple. I've read accounts that say he was poisoned. His own family (so the accounts speculate) turned against him. It wasn't an appendicitis, it was strichnine....or something like that.

Rough Stone Rolling also paints JS as a bully. It surprised me to read that. I was in the dark.

There are plenty enough verifiable stories about Elder Bednar being a jerk, we don’t really need to speculate about him being abusive to his wife. It may be she is just shy. But we do know for a fact he’d have all of the students at devotionals at BYU-I raise their scriptures in some kind of Nazi-Esque salute, which speaks to his fascist nature I suppose. Weirdo.

I remember the story about the revoked apostolic blessing by Elder Bednar - yeah, man, those kids really missed out, losing that blessing has probably made a lot of difference in their lives. That was bullying behavior, no doubt, in a petty sort of way.

Other examples of a GA being a bully - how about pretty much every freaking thing Brigham Young ever did after he became President of the Church? That guy was the biggest bully in all of Mormondom, hands down. Stealing wives, sending people to deserts to try and grow crops, bossing people around all the time, talking about how poor Thomas Marsh couldn’t get a woman when he came back while Brigham had plenty - there has never been a bigger bully in all of Church history than Brother Brigham.

One apologetic for Brigham Young is that he was the tyrant the early church needed to not come apart at the seams like so many other Restorationist era faiths did. I would not defend virtually anything he did, but if you accept that the end justifies the means, then Brigham Young was downright inspired. The human wreckage in his wake has been nearly forgotten with a large, well-funded organization as his legacy.

Corsair wrote: ↑

Wed May 09, 2018 9:33 am

One apologetic for Brigham Young is that he was the tyrant the early church needed to not come apart at the seams like so many other Restorationist era faiths did. I would not defend virtually anything he did, but if you accept that the end justifies the means, then Brigham Young was downright inspired. The human wreckage in his wake has been nearly forgotten with a large, well-funded organization as his legacy.

The idea that the ends justify the means smacks right up against the "god is no respecter of persons" doctrine. The church plays that one in so many interesting and evil ways.

With the whole McKenna Denson deal going on right now. Oh...the church would say its wrong to withhold information, but they themselves justify it because, to them, the ends justify the means (the ends being protecting the good name of the church). But the church will be the first one to preach fire and brimstone AGAINST the ends justifying the means from the pulpit.

The hypocrisy is astonishing.

Forgive me. I have to go throw up!

Although some may disagree that it was "bullying" behavior, I would say Holland's rant at the Tempe stake conference on why people leave may qualify. I took it personally and I've thought different of Jeff ever since.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.ph ... 98,1809298

Particularly the part where he says (speaking metaphorically) that leaving the church is the dumbest thing someone could do.

Arcturus wrote: ↑

Wed May 09, 2018 11:37 am

Although some may disagree that it was "bullying" behavior, I would say Holland's rant at the Tempe stake conference on why people leave may qualify. I took it personally and I've thought different of Jeff ever since.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.ph ... 98,1809298

Particularly the part where he says (speaking metaphorically) that leaving the church is the dumbest thing someone could do.

I was shocked and surprised when I heard this recording. It seemed so out of character for Holland I couldn't believe it at first. Then, the realization that Holland is just "one of the good old boys" sank in.

Jeffery Arh Holland called me a taffy puller.

2bizE wrote: ↑

Thu May 10, 2018 8:47 pm

Jeffery Arh Holland called me a taffy puller.

You should have told him that your taffy pulling brings you both sanity and joy.


Bruce McConkie yelling at a ward pianist because her prelude music was bothering him while he was chatting with some Stake Councilman before the meeting began.

Elder Ezra Taft Benson writing to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover that President Dwight Eisenhower was a communist. Hoover added the letter to his file on Benson.

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?i ... type=CMSID

Leonard Arrington had some experience with bullies among the Brethren.

Can't stage manage a grizzly bear!

McConkie publically humiliating George Pace at a BYU devotional

Joseph F. Smith putting his foot down and firing a BYU professor because he told the students in his BYU biology class about the Theory of Evolution.

To this day when evolution is mentioned on the BYU campus, students must drop to their knees in penitence and make the sign of the CTR.

moksha wrote: ↑

Fri May 11, 2018 9:07 am

....and make the sign of the CTR.