Polygamy in heaven

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Mackman
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Polygamy in heaven

Post by Mackman » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:46 pm

Does anyone know where I can find something that states polygamy will be practiced in the Celestial kingdom ? Im not sure if I have ever seen that written anywhere but I sure would like to see it if it in fact exists. Thanks

Arcturus
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by Arcturus » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:42 pm

The principle is implicitly preached in the church today given that a man may be sealed to more than one woman. For instance, both Nelson and Oaks are “spiritual” polygamists considering they were widowers and married again in the temple.
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
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Palerider
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by Palerider » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:19 pm

This might help:

"In a sermon reported in the LDS Church's Deseret News, August 6, 1862, Brigham Young stated:

Monogamy, or restrictions by law to one wife, is no part of the economy of heaven among men. Such a system was commenced by the founders of the Roman empire. . . . Rome became the mistress of the world, and introduced this order of monogamy wherever her sway was acknowledged. Thus this monogamic order of marriage, so esteemed by modern Christians as a holy sacrament and divine institution, is nothing but a system established by a set of robbers. . . .

Why do we believe in and practice polygamy? Because the Lord introduced it to his servants in a revelation given to Joseph Smith, and the Lord's servants have always practiced it. "And is that religion popular in heaven?" It is the only popular religion there . . . (Deseret News, August 6, 1862)"

And this:

Writing in 1897 LDS Apostle Charles W. Penrose stated:

"In the case of a man marrying a wife in the everlasting covenant who dies while he continues in the flesh and marries another by the same divine law, each wife will come forth in her order and enter with him into his glory."

("Mormon" Doctrine Plain and Simple, or Leaves from the Tree of Life, by Charles W. Penrose, p.66, 1897, Salt Lake City, UT).
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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Palerider
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by Palerider » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:42 pm

Orson Pratt taught that:
"God the Father had a plurality of wives”

Brigham also stated:

"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy.”

But now that social attitudes in the church have changed and the old prophets are dead, the church can now say:

2005 manual for seminary teachers:

“.... Sometimes teachers speculate that plural marriage will be a requirement for all who enter the celestial kingdom. We have no knowledge that plural marriage will be a requirement for exaltation.”

THERE!!! See how easy that was to change that doctrine!!! I feel so much better now... :? :roll:
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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2bizE
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by 2bizE » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:52 am

Isn’t this interesting how these leaders just invented doctrine on a whim. They pulled it right out of their a$$es. They had heard something from JS or others and just invented their own expansion of doctrine. Same thing goes on today though.
~2bizE

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Angel
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by Angel » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:58 pm

Palerider wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:42 pm
Orson Pratt taught that:
"God the Father had a plurality of wives”
Brigham also stated:
"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy.”
Polygamy - or the "law of Sarah" started with Abraham's family...
Quiz time - who does Abraham and Isaac represent? (HF and J)... so who does Sarah represent? (HM) and who does the handmaid represent? (Mary, mother of J)...

You can comfort yourself knowing Mary was a virgin... and that Mary had her own husband - Joseph... Polyandry and Polygammy going on for J's family.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Palerider
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by Palerider » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:32 pm

Angel wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:58 pm
Palerider wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:42 pm
Orson Pratt taught that:
"God the Father had a plurality of wives”
Brigham also stated:
"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy.”
Polygamy - or the "law of Sarah" started with Abraham's family...
Quiz time - who does Abraham and Isaac represent? (HF and J)... so who does Sarah represent? (HM) and who does the handmaid represent? (Mary, mother of J)...

You can comfort yourself knowing Mary was a virgin... and that Mary had her own husband - Joseph... Polyandry and Polygammy going on for J's family.
I'm unfamiliar with you as a poster but don’t be shy. Tell us what you really mean.

If you mean that in Mormon theology the nativity story is indicitive of celestial polygamy, you may be right. But just for clarity's sake I'm including a rebuttal to that doctrine for any TBMs who might be lurking.

Polygamy certainly didn't start with Abraham. It had been practiced by numerous peoples since before recorded history. The term "Sarah's law" is strictly a Mormon creation and has zero efficacy in the real world.

Only in Mormon theology does God "command" Abraham to take Hagar as his wife. There is zero Biblical support for this scenario. The reality is that Abraham was willing to faithfully wait upon the Lord to miraculously bring forth an heir in His own due time.

It was a bit of a show of impatience and lack of faith on Sarah's part that motivated her to OFFER Hagar as a means to producing an heir. Also Hagar does not recieve full legal status as a wife. She is strictly a concubine. When the Bible uses the term "wife" for Hagar it is a euphemistic translation of the Hebrew word for "concubine".

When Sarah expresses her distress regarding Hagar, Abraham, acknowledging her continued ownership of Hagar as her servant (not as a wife with full legal status), says, paraphrasing, "She's belongs to you, do whatever you want with her."

If Hagar had been a fully legal wife, Sarah would have had no claim on her destiny.

Thus, Mary could very well have been simply a chosen vessel to bring Christ into the world. There was no need for her to be a "wife" to Heavenly Father and also no need for God to have Intercourse with her as the shallow and vulger imaginings of some men speculate.

I have no doubt God could have accomplished this feat by other miraculous means.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Angel
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by Angel » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:54 pm

I'm new here :)

polygammy is one of my issues so... I have read a bit on it.
Palerider wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:32 pm
Angel wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:58 pm
Palerider wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:42 pm
Orson Pratt taught that:
"God the Father had a plurality of wives”
Brigham also stated:
"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy.”
Polygamy - or the "law of Sarah" started with Abraham's family...
Quiz time - who does Abraham and Isaac represent? (HF and J)... so who does Sarah represent? (HM) and who does the handmaid represent? (Mary, mother of J)...

You can comfort yourself knowing Mary was a virgin... and that Mary had her own husband - Joseph... Polyandry and Polygammy going on for J's family.
I'm unfamiliar with you as a poster but don’t be shy. Tell us what you really mean.

If you mean that in Mormon theology the nativity story is indicitive of celestial polygamy, you may be right. But just for clarity's sake I'm including a rebuttal to that doctrine for any TBMs who might be lurking.

Polygamy certainly didn't start with Abraham. It had been practiced by numerous peoples since before recorded history. The term "Sarah's law" is strictly a Mormon creation and has zero efficacy in the real world.
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... o?lang=eng
if the commandment started with Abraham or not, it really is called "the law of Sarah"
Only in Mormon theology does God "command" Abraham to take Hagar as his wife. There is zero Biblical support for this scenario. The reality is that Abraham was willing to faithfully wait upon the Lord to miraculously bring forth an heir in His own due time.

It was a bit of a show of impatience and lack of faith on Sarah's part that motivated her to OFFER Hagar as a means to producing an heir. Also Hagar does not recieve full legal status as a wife. She is strictly a concubine. When the Bible uses the term "wife" for Hagar it is a euphemistic translation of the Hebrew word for "concubine".

When Sarah expresses her distress regarding Hagar, Abraham, acknowledging her continued ownership of Hagar as her servant (not as a wife with full legal status), says, paraphrasing, "She's belongs to you, do whatever you want with her."

If Hagar had been a fully legal wife, Sarah would have had no claim on her destiny.

Thus, Mary could very well have been simply a chosen vessel to bring Christ into the world. There was no need for her to be a "wife" to Heavenly Father and also no need for God to have Intercourse with her as the shallow and vulger imaginings of some men speculate.

I have no doubt God could have accomplished this feat by other miraculous means.
I agree, who knows if Mary and HF were married - if Jesus was conceived in wedlock or not... In any event, perfect women appear not to have children - Eve could not have children in Eden in her perfect form, and Jesus is the "only" child - the one and only - so I guess no other begotten children - and Jesus had to be begotten through a handmaid...
so... to "raise up seed"... a handmaid is needed... for all its worth... the spirit of adoption whereby the rest of us call Abba, father... yea, we're adopted, not begotten according to some scriptures...

Oh, and this crazy theory comes from Sr. Holland -
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1987/10/one- ... t?lang=eng

I guess some TBM's think heaven is a bunch of pregnant handmaids running around??? ... I like the "not created or made" just adopted - no fallen/cursed pregnant birth about it... no pregnancy in heaven.

Sorry - anyone can beleive whatever they want - but for those who want something to justify polygamy/polyandry, feel free to steal this crazy theory :D
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Mad Jax
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by Mad Jax » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:36 pm

I agree, who knows if... Jesus was conceived in wedlock or not
He was conceived in the imaginations of those who either deliberately or accidentally merged him with several other messiah figures throughout the history of mythological systems. Any doctrine regarding his genesis is going to consist of some kind of physical eukaryotic meiosis which requires a biological system to incubate him. This is because the doctrine originated with peoples who had no hang ups about the ideas of deities and humans having sweat filled, NC-17, unprotected, fluid rich sexual intercourse. The fact that this idea doesn't mesh well with religions that promote purity and chastity has resulted in the following manner of examining the doctrine; just don't think about it. Because either it has a basis in the only methods in which anybody through history (until the 20th century) ever reproduced, or it involves some kind of fairy tale cabbage patch voodoo that nobody in their right mind can accept.

So I really have no particular problem with the church choosing to go with the Cinemax version instead of the Disney version. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't when you really think about it.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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Angel
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by Angel » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:13 pm

Mad Jax wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:36 pm
I agree, who knows if... Jesus was conceived in wedlock or not
He was conceived in the imaginations of those who either deliberately or accidentally merged him with several other messiah figures throughout the history of mythological systems. Any doctrine regarding his genesis is going to consist of some kind of physical eukaryotic meiosis which requires a biological system to incubate him. This is because the doctrine originated with peoples who had no hang ups about the ideas of deities and humans having sweat filled, NC-17, unprotected, fluid rich sexual intercourse. The fact that this idea doesn't mesh well with religions that promote purity and chastity has resulted in the following manner of examining the doctrine; just don't think about it. Because either it has a basis in the only methods in which anybody through history (until the 20th century) ever reproduced, or it involves some kind of fairy tale cabbage patch voodoo that nobody in their right mind can accept.

So I really have no particular problem with the church choosing to go with the Cinemax version instead of the Disney version. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't when you really think about it.
:)

the idea of J does have a few nice lessons. I like that J did not keep the sabbath day holy, that he yelled at the church-going folks, that he was born out of wedlock and raised by a step-dad, born under crazy circumstances... poor guy was killed by religious people. Every time I see a new pharisee running around I think man, there they go - still trying to kill J.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Snowdrop
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by Snowdrop » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:10 pm

I was always under the impression that the binding on earth spoken of in Matthew was generally interpreted as sealing. If that is the case, everyone “bound” on earth would remain in that same state in heaven. That would seem to indicate an affirmative on polygamy there.

http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/16/19a
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moksha
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by moksha » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:54 am

Even the top Mormon polygamists were pikers compared to 6th century BCE King Tamba of Benaras, who had the distinction for owning the largest harem in history. It is believed that his harem included some sixteen thousand wive/concubines and was presided over by the chief queen Sussondi. Chances are that he and Joseph became fast friends in the CK.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Reuben
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by Reuben » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:27 pm

moksha wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:54 am
Even the top Mormon polygamists were pikers compared to 6th century BCE King Tamba of Benaras, who had the distinction for owning the largest harem in history. It is believed that his harem included some sixteen thousand wive/concubines and was presided over by the chief queen Sussondi. Chances are that he and Joseph became fast friends in the CK.
Someone needs to do his temple work so he can rub it in Joseph's face that he'll have more glory and eternal lives.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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moksha
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by moksha » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:17 pm

Reuben wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:27 pm
Someone needs to do his temple work so he can rub it in Joseph's face that he'll have more glory and eternal lives.
My guess is that if he was easily found in history books then his Temple work probably has been done. Sort of like when Samwise Gamgee was sealed to Rosie Cotton.

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Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Rob4Hope
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by Rob4Hope » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:05 pm

Snowdrop wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:10 pm
I was always under the impression that the binding on earth spoken of in Matthew was generally interpreted as sealing. If that is the case, everyone “bound” on earth would remain in that same state in heaven. That would seem to indicate an affirmative on polygamy there.

http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/16/19a
Considering your black cat avatar SnowDrop,...I had to throw this in. The concept of "binding" has deep and rich roots in occult symbolism and belief systems as well. JS was no pure and simple boy--his whole family was into the whole divination concept.

In the Smith occult circle, binding had its roots in casting spells to "bind" the guardian spirits that kept Joseph's diggers from getting the buried treasure. When the diggers failed, Joseph (or his father, or Alvin) claimed that they did something wrong, that the guardian spirit couldn't be controlled, and the treasure slipped further into the earth. It was a massive con.

The think that creeps me out is the phrase "Holiness to the Lord" is one of the phrases found on the magic parchment's J and H had. And, it is also part of the 'binding' spell they used when trying to get treasure.

"I the Lord and bound when ye do what I say....".....that is freaky shiz folks....when you know some of the history...

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w2mz
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Re: Polygamy in heaven

Post by w2mz » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:37 am

Mackman wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:46 pm
Does anyone know where I can find something that states polygamy will be practiced in the Celestial kingdom ? Im not sure if I have ever seen that written anywhere but I sure would like to see it if it in fact exists. Thanks
Reread RMN’s talk from last Conference. He states that he was sealed to his first wife, then once she passed away, he was/is sealed to another woman. Unless my math is off, that means minimally two women for him in the next life. He doesn’t say “polygamy” specifically, but how else can you interpret it?

Assuming he makes it to the CK.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth

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