NOM

As I've posted on this forum before, my oldest son decided to continue his Scouting journey after we stopped going to Mormon church, and now our family is heavily involved in two separate non-LDS Scout Groups where both me and my wife take an active role. In our Cub Scout Pack, I am now the Cub Master, and my wife is the Bear Den Leader, and in our Boy Scout Troop, I'm an Assistant Scout Master.

This week is Cub Scout Day Camp, and in my DFW region, it's a weeklong event at a local park. This year, our attendance is about 40-50% lighter than normal. I found out through the grapevine that this is because literally none of the Mormon packs showed up. I didn't realize that they made up such a large percentage of campers in years past, but my ignorance in the matter is not much of a surprise given that I'm a DNC contact and refused to engage in any way after I expressed some of my feelings to EQP, the missionaries, and bishop.

So, my question for the NOM group is this. It seems like the 2 year exodus was a wink and a nod to wards and branches to go ahead and disengage, but keep paying your dues. Is this a correct assessment? Are y'all seeing the same thing? What's going on with camps in the MORCOR?

I serve on the Scout Committee, a position I have particularly enjoyed because I never have to talk about Joseph Smith. But that's going away in a year and a half. We have a couple of boys who could get their Eagle before 2020 and I will do my best to assist. But the boys who don't already have their Second Class right now are probably going to lose interest. I also can't imagine that Scouting organization is going to attract a lot of LDS young men after next year.

This is compounded because our stake scout encampment was cancelled due to fire danger in the forests of Northern Arizona. The wards were urged to hold solid summer camps for the young men, but far fewer merit badges will end up being awarded. It's the end of an era and the cancellation of camp has put additional brakes on any remaining drive for scout advancement. I kind of doubt that wards will do a camp next year as a result.

Our ward has a couple of non-member boys who attend scouts. I cannot imagine that they will stick around for whatever the church rolls out in 2020.

foolmeonce wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:06 pm

This year, our attendance is about 40-50% lighter than normal.

I worry that the church's decision will give too many already-lackadaisical LDS scout leaders (who accepted their position reluctantly and have little enthusiasm for it) an excuse to be lazy. "Why get involved if we're pulling out anyway?"

Too bad for the boys. Cub scouting in particular, if done well, really gets these kids involved and excited. I fear that this is going to backfire on the church and they'll find that boys will prefer to stay home and play video games rather than attend the Indexing Derby or White and Green banquet.

And all because they're afraid some girls might want to show up.

Apparently, some stakes are beginning to have "Priesthood Encampments" as a replacement for scout camp.
https://www.lds.org/youth/activities/st ... t?lang=eng

Activities include, "individual scripture study, scripture memorization, small-group discussions led by young men, firesides, testimony meetings, teaching opportunities for the young men, and so on."

I am so jealous. When I went to scout at camp I was stuck with activities like canoeing, rifle shooting, archery, sailing, hiking, and other such tomfoolery.

I am an eleven year old scout leader and none of my scouts will make it through the deacons quorum before scouting gets dumped. When they replace it with some churchy replacement, I don't know if I will want to be involved as much.

I will admit I am a lot more relaxed about getting specific stuff done now than I was before. When they replace it I might just cancel every week until I get released.

Here's the full quote in context, which emphasizes a balance of activities:

Stakes can also combine together for such activities. These encampments should include a balance of recreational, spiritual, and service-based activities. For example:

Recreational activities could include swimming, sports, climbing, archery, or other things the young men like to do. Encourage wards to take advantage of the skills and talents of ward members as they plan these activities.
Spiritual activities could include individual scripture study, scripture memorization, small-group discussions led by young men, firesides, testimony meetings, teaching opportunities for the young men, and so on.
Service-based activities could include beautifying the campsite or facility, assembling humanitarian kits, learning skills to use in the service of others, and so on.

Christfollower wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:14 am

Here's the full quote in context, which emphasizes a balance of activities:

Stakes can also combine together for such activities. These encampments should include a balance of recreational, spiritual, and service-based activities. For example:

Recreational activities could include swimming, sports, climbing, archery, or other things the young men like to do. Encourage wards to take advantage of the skills and talents of ward members as they plan these activities.
Spiritual activities could include individual scripture study, scripture memorization, small-group discussions led by young men, firesides, testimony meetings, teaching opportunities for the young men, and so on.
Service-based activities could include beautifying the campsite or facility, assembling humanitarian kits, learning skills to use in the service of others, and so on.

Hey, Christfollower, welcome back for your second post!

Yeah, I intentionally emphasized the really "fun" stuff. We had a scout master who would pull out the Book of Mormon and read it out loud every evening around the campfire at scout camp. Man, talk about killing a good time and putting the brakes on the laughter and bonding. I'm amazed that he didn't get the message when, night after night, all of the boys would sneak away to their tents while he was reading. That's what I imagine the encampments being like, except that there's no way to sneak away from it. Even the word encampment makes it sound grim. Might as well add the word "concentration".

If my boys were still scout-age I would skip the encampments and have them join a Lutheran scout troop. Those guys really know how to do scouting.

I just read Slavereeno's post about Girl's Camp and it occurred to me that Girls Camp is the model for the church's new scouting program. Aaronic Priesthood Encampments are Girls Camp for boys. Of course, they would never own up to taking the cue from females.

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:06 am

I worry that the church's decision will give too many already-lackadaisical LDS scout leaders (who accepted their position reluctantly and have little enthusiasm for it) an excuse to be lazy. "Why get involved if we're pulling out anyway?"

Too bad for the boys. Cub scouting in particular, if done well, really gets these kids involved and excited. I fear that this is going to backfire on the church and they'll find that boys will prefer to stay home and play video games rather than attend the Indexing Derby or White and Green banquet.

And all because they're afraid some girls might want to show up.
[/quote]

I think that this may be what's going on. The Scouting programs by design, can't be finished in 2 years, and getting kids going just to pull them out after they're picking up momentum doesn't sound fun at all. It really is too bad. In a world of kids stuck to their screens, it's been great seeing them kick it old school this week and just play. You know, I'll be darned if I didn't have a group of 8 year old boys playing marbles for 45 minutes outside in the dirt. I kid you not. Some of them were really getting into it too.

Also, I'm please to report that some of the younger dens had some girls in attendance as well. From what I could tell in passing, these girls were doing just as well as the boys, and really didn't seem to change the dynamic of dens. Turns out, kids are kids, and people are people; regardless of race, sex, or orientation.

Who would have thought?

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:12 pm

I just read Slavereeno's post about Girl's Camp and it occurred to me that Girls Camp is the model for the church's new scouting program. Aaronic Priesthood Encampments are Girls Camp for boys. Of course, they would never own up to taking the cue from females.

Yeah, I thought this was implied. The boys will really love their medallion necklaces.

We're trading in the scout camp model for the Bible camp model.

Who wouldn't?

You do have to admit, moving away from the BSA is a lot cheaper. No expensive summer camps to pay for anymore. Now you can do it all in the church parking lot.

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:26 pm

We're trading in the scout camp model for the Bible camp model.

So, that may be semi feasible in the MORCOR where the church likely owns lots of camp sites already, but what about everywhere else?

Are they going to start buying camp site land?

A bigger question for me is liability, a "non-Scout" latter-day saint chops his hand off with a hatchet--who's the responsible party? Will the church have regs and rules? Who teaches knife safety and if it isn't taught who's on the hook? I'm motorcycle safety instructor and staying on script and touching all the bases is your place of safety.

Given the church's interest in all things legal I'd be curious to see the way things play.

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:17 pm

Hey, Christfollower, welcome back for your second post!

I had over 1000 on the old site from when I was angry. That was back in 2005 when you young NOM whippersnappers were still memorizing the First Vision story and looking forward to your missions.

NOM was more middle way back then, but the middle way isn't tenable for most people.

I come back from time to time to see what I've missed (i.e. the buzzkilling news of the church) but don't have the energy to be so angry any more.

Christfollower wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:20 am

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:17 pm

Hey, Christfollower, welcome back for your second post!

I had over 1000 on the old site from when I was angry. That was back in 2005 when you young NOM whippersnappers were still memorizing the First Vision story and looking forward to your missions.

NOM was more middle way back then, but the middle way isn't tenable for most people.

I come back from time to time to see what I've missed (i.e. the buzzkilling news of the church) but don't have the energy to be so angry any more.

I'm not such a young whippersnapper myself. I remember you well from NOM1.0 where I had something like 8000 posts (If memory serves me). Not something I'm particularly proud of, considering the time invested. I'm feeling a lot less anger too. Probably at least as much amusement these days.

Brent wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:28 pm

A bigger question for me is liability, a "non-Scout" latter-day saint chops his hand off with a hatchet--who's the responsible party? Will the church have regs and rules? Who teaches knife safety and if it isn't taught who's on the hook? I'm motorcycle safety instructor and staying on script and touching all the bases is your place of safety.

Given the church's interest in all things legal I'd be curious to see the way things play.

Between liability and cost cutting, all hatchets are likely to be banned. As well as knives, firearms, anything related to fire, or anything else that is even remotely fun. Money is more important that the kids.

I'm a lackadaisical scout leader. I am hoping to throw the towel in early. Our charter has about 12 boys from 12-18 years old. None of them are interested. I have nobody who helps me with scouts. No scout committee. No assistant. I'm too busy to do much on weekends with the boys. I'm pretty much checked out.

2bizE wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:18 pm

I'm a lackadaisical scout leader. I am hoping to throw the towel in early. Our charter has about 12 boys from 12-18 years old. None of them are interested. I have nobody who helps me with scouts. No scout committee. No assistant. I'm too busy to do much on weekends with the boys. I'm pretty much checked out.

This makes you a hero, in my mind.