Purpose of religion

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
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2bizE
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Purpose of religion

Post by 2bizE » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:04 pm

What is the purpose of religion?
I think deep down, religion tries to provide a concept for death. Since nobody knows what happens next, religions have popped up like used car salesmen over centuries and centuries to try their approach on death.
Each type of religion tries to answer in its own way what happens after death.
Christians: resurrection
Hindu: reincarnation
Mormons: resurrection plus eternal life and become a god of your own universe.

What say ye friends?
~2bizE

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Mad Jax
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by Mad Jax » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:15 pm

I've come to the only conclusion I think is reasonable for me to reach, and that is that if there is any kind of "meta-reality" that encompasses our own, there is no intention for humankind to know what it is. But regardless, humans and highly intelligent animals possess a curiosity which requires sating.

I don't think humans really fear death that much. I think as a whole, humans fear loss. There are too many circumstances which humans will sacrifice their life to believe that death is our species' ultimate fear. Combine that with a desire to know something that by all accounts appears unknowable, and you have the birth of religious belief. Ultimately, it appears that the need to create an answer, even if the answer is wrong, is the driver.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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wtfluff
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by wtfluff » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:38 pm

2bizE wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:04 pm
What say ye friends?
Bottom line: Religion is a business, designed to make money for those who run it.

(Cynical? Who, ME?)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by Mormorrisey » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:14 pm

And control. Don't forget control.

Today I realized the members of my ward are insane, and they simply don't believe in free agency. They want to control every aspect of their loved ones' lives, and then they wonder why other family members want nothing to do with them and their crazy religion. This comes from the top and filters down. Worst Father's Day at church ever. :evil:

So glad to be home with good people, and browsing this place while we rest from a great dinner. Thanks, Sis M. if you read this, sure love you! ;)
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Palerider
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by Palerider » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:28 pm

I have to think that knowing WHY we are here and the possibilities of where we came from are as important as knowing what happens after death.

This is quite an experience we go through and it would be great for most people to know that it was well worth the effort.

Why go through this life if none of it matters in the least and there is truly only annihilation afterwords? One doesn't even get to ask the question, "What was that all about?"

Are we really just a random accident of the universe or is there meaning for being here?

For us to have a purpose for being here implies someone who created us for that purpose. A First Cause.

Each of us has to determine whether God reveals Himself to man as man evolves to a given level of understanding or if the whole thing is bunk. I think "religion" is man's way of organizing a method to return to God or express God's will to his children.

Some few men do a fair job of it. Most men....not so good. And others are just playing a vicious game because they got up one morning and either needed a job or thought they were somebody.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

Reuben
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by Reuben » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:24 pm

Religion was science before there was science.

Religion was government before there were kings, presidents and legislatures.

Religion was logic and mathematics before there was logic and mathematics.

Religion was morality, politics, justice, law enforcement, military, community, education, and even entertainment. Religion encompassed everything.

Then we specialized. Religion reluctantly - sometimes kicking and screaming - took a back seat. Now it sits behind us and wags its finger, still claiming special knowledge and credit for every good thing, while we ignore it and our specialized replacement institutions get even better (for the most part, on average).

A lot of its claims of credit for making the world a better place are supportable. Science and mathematics have largely forgotten how much it owes to clergy, theologians and religious laymen faffing about in the dark until they hit on something foundational, such as genetics, Bayes' Law, and infinity. Our other institutions are similarly indebted. It's just hard to thank grandpa for his past help while he berates you, says that you owe him everything, and embarrasses you in front of your friends with his sexist and homophobic ideas.

It's a shame, too. Nothing provides community, purpose and morality quite like religion does. When it works, it works really well. I'm not sure we've got comparable replacements for those things.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

dogbite
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by dogbite » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:20 pm

Religion was the first government of groups. It was the mechanism that triggered various responses to evolved moral instincts to allow individuals to cooperate beyond their immediate interest and circle of trust.

Larger group cooperation leverages specialization increasing production.

As noted earlier, earliest religion wasn't about behavior, it was about explaining the world and humans place in it. As groupss got larger than an individual could know everyone individually, the moral aspects came into play.

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BlackMormon
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by BlackMormon » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:38 pm

One common denominator with ALL religions, there is always a guy or guys at the top that get money, power, or both. They even sit in thrones. Unless this is how things are meant to be, that is, a man or men ruling over others, then religion has been a way to gain power and generate a legacy, all traist from the Illuminati. Money and power always flows to the top.

Reuben
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by Reuben » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:56 am

Relevant TED talk by Jonathan Haidt on self-transcendence:

https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haid ... nscendence

You could say that religion is a vehicle for self-transcendence in the same way a family is. I was trying to get at this when I said one of its purposes is community.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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Hagoth
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:11 pm

I think the single most overlooked element in the genesis of religion is hallucinogenic substances. One thing that ancient and less-stratified societies all over the world have in common is the use of psychedelic drugs. These drugs induce intensely spiritual experiences and visions.

An important figure in "primitive" societies is that shaman, whose job description includes taking and administrating hallucinogenics and providing a metaphysical explanation for its effects. As societies become more stratified the religious big man becomes more powerful and begins to elevate himself and his experiences above those of commoners. Eventually he is the sole authorized user of the drug, or the primary recipient of supernatural communication from unseen realms.

Before you know it he needs a pile rocks that elevate him physically above others, then a bigger pile with a temple on top and he starts to speak for the gods, who are always interested in getting as many people as possible carrying and piling rocks for their glory. The simplest definition is getting people to do what you want, regardless of what they want or need.

If you want to get back to true religion you might consider eliminating the middle men, chewing up some mushrooms, and communing with the infinite on your own behalf.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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RubinHighlander
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:43 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:11 pm
I think the single most overlooked element in the genesis of religion is hallucinogenic substances. One thing that ancient and less-stratified societies all over the world have in common is the use of psychedelic drugs. These drugs induce intensely spiritual experiences and visions.

An important figure in "primitive" societies is that shaman, whose job description includes taking and administrating hallucinogenics and providing a metaphysical explanation for its effects. As societies become more stratified the religious big man becomes more powerful and begins to elevate himself and his experiences above those of commoners. Eventually he is the sole authorized user of the drug, or the primary recipient of supernatural communication from unseen realms.

Before you know it he needs a pile rocks that elevate him physically above others, then a bigger pile with a temple on top and he starts to speak for the gods, who are always interested in getting as many people as possible carrying and piling rocks for their glory. The simplest definition is getting people to do what you want, regardless of what they want or need.

If you want to get back to true religion you might consider eliminating the middle men, chewing up some mushrooms, and communing with the infinite on your own behalf.
Yes! Although I have not tried the shroom experience yet it's on my list. MJ works pretty well, especially out in nature, alone in the desert or forest. There's much evidence that the Smith's and many others in that era were using hallucinoginics to invoke their spiritial experiences. Then it and the magical world became taboo when the corporation took over.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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Mad Jax
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by Mad Jax » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:02 pm

RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:43 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:11 pm
I think the single most overlooked element in the genesis of religion is hallucinogenic substances. One thing that ancient and less-stratified societies all over the world have in common is the use of psychedelic drugs. These drugs induce intensely spiritual experiences and visions.

An important figure in "primitive" societies is that shaman, whose job description includes taking and administrating hallucinogenics and providing a metaphysical explanation for its effects. As societies become more stratified the religious big man becomes more powerful and begins to elevate himself and his experiences above those of commoners. Eventually he is the sole authorized user of the drug, or the primary recipient of supernatural communication from unseen realms.

Before you know it he needs a pile rocks that elevate him physically above others, then a bigger pile with a temple on top and he starts to speak for the gods, who are always interested in getting as many people as possible carrying and piling rocks for their glory. The simplest definition is getting people to do what you want, regardless of what they want or need.

If you want to get back to true religion you might consider eliminating the middle men, chewing up some mushrooms, and communing with the infinite on your own behalf.
Yes! Although I have not tried the shroom experience yet it's on my list. MJ works pretty well, especially out in nature, alone in the desert or forest. There's much evidence that the Smith's and many others in that era were using hallucinoginics to invoke their spiritial experiences. Then it and the magical world became taboo when the corporation took over.
DMT is supposed to be the queen of all reality benders in regards to religious manifestation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqtvuzcL84M
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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GoodBoy
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by GoodBoy » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:32 am

I think that organizations are like organisms and follow evolution. Like biology, what drives some organizations to grow and what drives some to die, is just random trial and error. Those that create a following grow, those that don't, die. For every successful religion that grew (like Joseph Smith's creation) there are thousands that withered and died. Joseph Smith, for some reason, found the magic formula that caused his religion to grow while others' all around him failed.

Some other observations:
[*]People really want a sacred space. An Iranian student was telling me how throughout the Middle East they make mosques or sacred temples just like where Ali met Hossein (both famous figures in Islam) or something otherwise trivial. But people reverently flock to these holy and elaborately built places and have very meaningful and powerful spiritual experiences there.
[*]We all seem to want to be a part of something bigger than ourselves.
[*]Religion is one path to status for some people that would otherwise be nobodies.
[*]Religious rules are often around things that reduce fighting and increase cohesiveness. Like no adultery, no stealing, no lying, serve your neighbor, etc. Also fear of eternal punishment definitely affects some people's behavior.
[*]Anxiety over your own impending death is something that drives people to accept ideas that they won't end.
Always been the good kid, but I wanted to know more, and to find and test truth.

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Archimedes
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by Archimedes » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:43 pm

In its rawest form, I believe religion has been created by man in its various forms, mostly to explain death and comfort those who are faced with it. As religions grow in power and influence, then they become providers of community, sanctuary, privilege for the obedient, etc.

I really like Michener's "The Source," as a good read on this topic.
"She never loved you; she loved the church, her one true love. She used you to marry the church by proxy."

-- unknown reddit poster

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Zack Tacorin Dos
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Re: Purpose of religion

Post by Zack Tacorin Dos » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:52 am

Lot's of good purposes discussed.

Before I give my thought, let me preface it with an explanation of my religious perspective. I think all religion is man-made. I do not believe in God, gods, anything supernatural, or an afterlife.

That being said, I think religion still does one thing marvelously well compared to most institutions; it can provide wonderful social support. Mormons in particular are good at this, at least for those who conform to expectations. I think this support tends to come at a heavy price (in-group vs. out-group dynamics, group think, demand for conformity, 10-F'ing-% of your income for Mormons, etc.), but social support is valuable, so sometimes even those who don't fully believe will join and support it fully.

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