The Big Bang: Cosmological Discussion with My Parents

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achilles
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The Big Bang: Cosmological Discussion with My Parents

Post by achilles » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:44 am

I want to share two experiences I have had with my parents regarding current theories about the origins of the universe, and how it has led to discussions about God.

1) One day, I was driving my mom (the Nereid Thetis) to Cache Valley from Brigham City. We were listening to the radio, and as we entered Sardine Canyon we lost the signal for the radio station and it went to white noise. I had been reading and thinking about cosmology, and I said:

Achilles: I've recently learned where that sound comes from...
Thetis: Where does it come from?
Achilles: We're listening to the Big Bang. It's the sound of the cosmic microwave background radiation...
Thetis: Do you believe in the Big Bang?
Achilles: Yes, I do. I think that's how the universe was created...or something like it...

I sensed she felt uncomfortable about the religious implications of my belief and said:

Achilles: Why shouldn't it be the way God created the Universe?
Thetis: I don't know. I guess it could be?

(Tangent--Oh, how I miss her! In four days she will be gone 1 year. Unlike the immortal Thetis, my Thetis has passed into eternity...)

2) Recently, Peleus, King of the Myrmidons was watching a YouTube video about astronomy, and noted:

Peleus: I guess the Universe isn't shaped like a sphere, but like a flattened disc or a donut... If the Big Bang really happened, wouldn't it be shaped like a sphere?
Achilles: What's outside the universe?
Peleus: Outside?
Achilles: Yes. Why wouldn't there be something outside the universe...maybe the inflation of the universe is being constrained by what's outside. Isn't God outside the universe?
Peleus: I suppose so...

***

I bring these discussions up because they get right to my beliefs and the beliefs of my parents about God and existence. I'm personally agnostic about God (currently), but I don't see how something like the Big Bang couldn't be true and also created by God... Anyway...

I've always liked cosmology, particle physics, the nucleosynthesis of the chemical elements, the life cycle of stars, how solar systems form, etc. And yet what I learned about these things was in tension with my previous TBM religious beliefs. Somehow I was able to compartmentalize the two ideas. But eventually I had to take it off my shelf and examine it. I don't see why this couldn't be the way God makes universes and matter, energy, etc. I don't currently believe that there has to be a God to do these things, but I don't see why it couldn't be that way...


My dad has been watching Fair Mormon...maybe he's in trouble...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVeZLP_1-Rc

Watch if you dare... It really isn't that bad once he gets into his "talk"...
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

― Carl Sagan

"The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek."

-Joseph Campbell

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NOMinally Mormon
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Re: The Big Bang: Cosmological Discussion with My Parents

Post by NOMinally Mormon » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:36 am

My dad thinks genesis 1 describes the 'creation' of the solar system. His theory solves problematic issues like preexisting stars and the time it takes for their light to reach earth. I used to try to reconcile science and religion, but it takes too much effort.

I too am fascinated by cosmology and the big bang. I watched a lecture on YouTube the other day comparing the separation of the four basic forces shortly after the big bang, as the intense energy dissipated somewhat, to the four states that matter goes through as it loses energy. Quite thought provoking.

dogbite
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Re: The Big Bang: Cosmological Discussion with My Parents

Post by dogbite » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:25 pm

It would be spherical initially, but pretty quickly in deep time terms moves to more disc shaped things.

Why does a black hole have a accretion disk not an accretion sphere? Why do solar systems form in disks, not spheres and all going the same direction.

They start in spheres also. But there are lots of collisions in orbiting spheres. The law of conservation of (angular in this case) momentum evolves more stable disks from collision heavy spheres.

Same principle goes also for planetary rings thought they tend to be the shortest lived.

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moksha
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Re: The Big Bang: Cosmological Discussion with My Parents

Post by moksha » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:12 pm

Achilles, what attracted you to that particular parent-child combination of Peleus, Thetis, and Achilles?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Just This Guy
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Re: The Big Bang: Cosmological Discussion with My Parents

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:25 pm

NOMinally Mormon wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:36 am
My dad thinks genesis 1 describes the 'creation' of the solar system. His theory solves problematic issues like preexisting stars and the time it takes for their light to reach earth. I used to try to reconcile science and religion, but it takes too much effort.

I too am fascinated by cosmology and the big bang. I watched a lecture on YouTube the other day comparing the separation of the four basic forces shortly after the big bang, as the intense energy dissipated somewhat, to the four states that matter goes through as it loses energy. Quite thought provoking.

That is how I looked it for a long time. If you factor in the wording of the temple ceremony, it isn't that hard to mesh science and creation. My logic w]ent something like this:

"Go down and create a world as we have hitherto before done." Obviously shows that the Sol system is not the first creation in the universe.
"Call your labors the first (2nd, 3rd...) day." Time is defined after the fact and doe not necessarily mean 24 hours. Additionally, there is nothing saying that these periods could not have overlapped. Who says that time is linear for a god?

Death before the fall I took to only apply to humans.

Of course, it make a lot more sense once you throw out religion entirely.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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achilles
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Re: The Big Bang: Cosmological Discussion with My Parents

Post by achilles » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:52 pm

moksha wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:12 pm
Achilles, what attracted you to that particular parent-child combination of Peleus, Thetis, and Achilles?
It was Thetis who bore me and dipped me in the river Styx...and Peleus is, well, Peleus...
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

― Carl Sagan

"The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek."

-Joseph Campbell

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