Church vandalized

[Palerider]

So I'm reading this story about a 15 year old kid who vandalized a local lds church in Surprise, AZ. Of course the police were immediately notified of the crime and and they caught him with the help of security cameras.

According to police, "The teen could face an enhanced charge of felony aggravated criminal damage because he targeted a church, according to a Surprise Police Department spokesman."

Fair enough.....

But I'm wondering how the crime of vandalism compares with the crimes of child molestation or abuse?

Obviously the church reported the crime immediately and aided in the capture of this "felon".

But the article also mentioned that church workers were quick to repair the damage by washing off the spray painted epithets on the building.

So the damage was quickly resolved.

But when thinking about the damage caused by sexual predators or abusers and how long it takes to repair the human soul and mind after being physically violated and the loss of innocence and trust in humanity.....I keep getting the feeling there's something terribly wrong with this contrasting picture that I'm seeing.

Why do we see such an immediate, unequivocal response by the church when it's one of their buildings (which can be repaired), but when the target is an innocent and defensless child who may never be repaired in this life, we get the cover-ups, the dragging of feet, reticence to notify police, the pleas for forgiveness for a truly horrendous crime.....

I guess it depends on whose ox is being gored. The church has no real stake in some individual family that will have to live forever with all of the ramifications of a horrible crime. It really doesn’t inflict any pain on the corporation itself.

But damage a building where it might actually cost them money!?!? Toss forgiveness out the window and go for the throat.

[Reuben]

Why do we see such an immediate, unequivocal response by the church when it's one of their buildings (which can be repaired), but when the target is an innocent and defensless child who may never be repaired in this life, we get the cover-ups, the dragging of feet, reticence to notify police, the pleas for forgiveness for a truly horrendous crime.....

In both cases, the responses are all about appearances.

[Palerider]

Probably doing my own thread jack here but if it's all about "appearances", is that why the church seems SO hung up on spotlighting it's celebrity members?

Seems like every other week this "Lds Living" rag is going on about some mormon celebrity that's declaring their testimony or belief. Why is the church so focused on having these celebrity members called to our attention? Does that give the church more public credentials or bragging rights? Make them seem more normal?

Isn't that what Scientology does with Tom Cruise and John Travolta?

After having the opportunity of meeting a few Hollywood stars I can tell you having celebrity characters in your midst doesn't necessarily help your cause. You would sound clever and intelligent too if someone wrote all your lines for you....

[deacon blues]

The case with McKenna Denson and Joseph Bishop reminds me of this. The LDS Church is very zealous in its own defense. In Luke 19, Zachaeus the Publican told Jesus "if I have taken anything from any man by false accusation I restore him four fold." I don't sense that spirit in the role the Church is playing in the Denson-Bishop case.

[Hagoth]

But I'm wondering how the crime of vandalism compares with the crimes of child molestation or abuse?

It depends on whether it was done by a priesthood leader. Also, vandalism is harder to hide.

[Ben Davis]

“...Surprise Police Department spokesman."

Sounds like they were expecting someone else, lol.

[alas]

It is really very simple. The church cares about its buildings, but it does not care about its members. If Joseph Bishop had spray painted swear words on the MTC building, he would have been released as the MTC president, no matter if he went to his priesthood leader and confessed and repented. But he didn’t defile a building, but a human body. Just a church member who is damaged for life, no problem, and he repented to his leaders. If he had attacked the church by defiling its building, there is no forgiveness. You are an apostate. But he attacked a church member by defiling HER, but the church has millions of members, and they give the church money and service, but who serves in more important positions? The man or the woman? So, the church chooses between two members and writes off the women as collateral damage, and then coddles the man through the “repentance process” and keeps him as the more valuable member. They fail to see they are choosing a predator over an innocent, because rape culture says the victim is just as bad if not worse than the predator. It is a simple matter of valuing $$$$$ over humans and men over women.

I saw that with the way the church treated my father as an incest perp, compared to how it treated me and my mother. He was loved and coddled, even though he was officially excommunicated. My mother and I were shoved away, repeatedly, we were ignored, blamed, and I had bishops who refused to even talk to me, while he was meeting with his bishop every week with the bishop offering love, self esteem, and forgivesness. His repentance was VERY important to the church. Our healing was not worth anything, but we were horrible sinners for not having done it already.

The church really seems to like repentant sinners who are willing to grovel in their guilt. But it hates angry victims.

[Yobispo]

Why do we see such an immediate, unequivocal response by the church when it's one of their buildings

He touched the building. Open and closed.

[achilles]

but who serves in more important positions? The man or the woman? So, the church chooses between two members and writes off the women as collateral damage, and then coddles the man through the “repentance process” and keeps him as the more valuable member.

Holy S***. This is exactly what they do. I've never heard it put so clearly. This is about the worth of souls having different numerical values. And it's a totally instrumental way to look at fellow human beings.

"What can X do for the Church?"

"Is X or Y of more utility to the Church?"

[alas]

Yet, I don’t think they know that is what they are doing. Because of rape culture, then tend to see the victim of sexual predation as almost as guilty as the predator. There are several layers of rape culture they would have to dig through to understand that they are actually choosing rapists over their victim, usually men over women. But I have seen it happen to men. So, since I have seen rape culture cause a man who fell victim to a situation he didn’t know how to handle or was gang raped by several other men, be disfellowshipped, I think it has as much to do with rape culture as it does the church valuing men more than women. So I think it is some of each.

See, rape culture says both that rape is the worst thing that can happen, and that it is no big deal, get over it already. It also says the victim is almost as guilty as the perp. So, since the victim is almost as guilty, she/he needs to be punished too. It is also such a small mistake on the perp’s part that his life should not be ruined over it. It has no lasting impact on the victim, so she should just shut up and deal with it. It is never worth ruining a man’s life over. Then they refuse to see that it pretty much does ruin the victim’s life. No, for her, it is just a little sex and she just needs to repent, or if she really really isn’t at fault, then she should be over it because it wasn’t her fault, so she should just forget about it. Rape culture values the man over the woman, unless the victim is male, then he is emasculated, so don’t worry about the man who has just had his manhood taken away by gang rape. If he is raped by males, well, he ain’t much of a man and he is obviously gay or the other men would not have found him attractive. If he is raped by a woman, rape culture just giggles and says, ummm, that is physically impossible because of anatomy unless he was turned on, so he wanted it; therefore he is at fault.

And because the church is in the business of handing out forgiveness from God, but most certainly not in the business of helping victims recover, they focus love on the perp to help him repent, and tell the victim to go away and fix herself. They shove her away and say, get over it already. They do NOT want to hear her pain, because that doesn’t help *them* feel good about helping this sinner repent. *They* want to feel righteous by helping a sinner repent.

THEN, there is the factor that men are more valuable than women. That is both that male leaders see themselves in other men, and that men are seen as more valuable than women.

But along with that preference comes high expectations that men are to serve the church, while women are to serve their families. There is lots more pressure on men to serve the church than there is on women. The pressure on women is to get married and pump out babies and lose themselves in service to husband and children. Service to husband is to free him up so that he can serve the church. Men are groomed to serve the church from 12 on, while for girls church service is secondary if they are even asked to serve.

[1smartdodog]

Just to be clear we are not saying vandalIsm should not receive punishment or consequences but not more than rape. I find all crimes against property and people offensive and would hope they all get the response they deserve.