Bill Reel Gets Ultimatum from Stake President

[consiglieri]

More stake presidents need to grow a pair and tell HQ to eff off. Of course they will get replaced like Dehlin's SP did.

I told Bill it reminded me of the agenda items leaked by MormonLeaks a while back where the Seventy were meeting.

The minutes of the meeting said something about how they totally sustain their stake presidents, and a stake president who doesn't do what he is told regarding church discipline will be released.

Nobody seemed to mention the mutually exclusive nature of those items . . .

[consiglieri]

More stake presidents need to grow a pair and tell HQ to eff off. Of course they will get replaced like Dehlin's SP did.

The stake president said there were three options: (1) Bill stops podcasting and commenting negatively about the LDS Church; (2) Bill resigns; or, (3) Bill is excommunicated.

I told Bill there was a fourth option: (4) His stake president could grow a spine and tell his superiors to do their own dirty work.

Bill didn't think his stake president would go for option number four.

Although, to be fair, Bill did say he thinks his stake president is uncomfortable with the whole situation, and is obviously doing this only because his superiors at SLC are really putting the screws to him.

[Red Ryder]

Can we recreate the chain of command and apply some public pressure?

Bill
SP
Area Authority
Q70 ?
Q12
FP

Who reports to whom?

Can we find their phone numbers and start leaving messages of support for Bill?

[IT_Veteran]

Sometimes I wonder if I were to compile my own online activity regarding the church and send it to my SP, if that would do the trick.

A message board expressing your opinion is not the same as world-famous podcasts. However, if you put 95 of your posts into a PDF format and nailed them to the door of your local ward website (especially if you were in the Wittenberg Stake) that might do it. Did you denounce indulgences in any of your posts?

Hmm, now I have to think. I did compare tithing to buying your way into heaven, so maybe? My friends list on FB includes a bunch of apostates though, so I have the affiliating thing down pat.

[mooseman]

The stake president has been pressured for the last six months to take this course.

Six months ago (jan 12) president monson died and the new first presidency was chosen.

And we wonder where the order comes from because.....

[mynameisnottom]

I hope Bill records and releases all his interactions with church leaders. But....

But we don't need another soon-to-be excommunicated member recording his bishop like we need a stake president recording orders-to-excommunicate coming from a General Authority.

[Not Buying It]

I hope Bill records and releases all his interactions with church leaders. But....

But we don't need another soon-to-be excommunicated member recording his bishop like we need a stake president recording orders-to-excommunicate coming from a General Authority.

I think Bill should go in with the recording app on his phone out and tell them “look, I am recording this meeting. You can’t tell me not to, I don't need your permission. If you aren’t willing to let the whole world hear what transpires in this meeting, then we aren’t having it. You don’t get to bully me behind closed doors without the world hearing a recording of it”.

I guarantee, the meeting would not move forward. There is no way they want an audio recording of them bullying a dissident. Of course, they would probably just excommunicate him in absentia, but at least he would have a recording of them refusing to do it when there’s a record of what they say and do.

Because they are a bunch of freakin’ cowards - they only push you around when they think they can do it without anyone seeing them do it.

[Red Ryder]

I hope Bill records and releases all his interactions with church leaders. But....

But we don't need another soon-to-be excommunicated member recording his bishop like we need a stake president recording orders-to-excommunicate coming from a General Authority.

I think Bill should go in with the recording app on his phone out and tell them “look, I am recording this meeting. You can’t tell me not to, I don't need your permission. If you aren’t willing to let the whole world hear what transpires in this meeting, then we aren’t having it. You don’t get to bully me behind closed doors without the world hearing a recording of it”.

I guarantee, the meeting would not move forward. There is no way they want an audio recording of them bullying a dissident. Of course, they would probably just excommunicate him in absentia, but at least he would have a recording of them refusing to do it when there’s a record of what they say and do.

Because they are a bunch of freakin’ cowards - they only push you around when they think they can do it without anyone seeing them do it.

Didn’t Dehlin or was it Jeremy Runnells that had to sign something stating they wouldn’t record? If I recall they were told to sign or else they would proceed in their absence.

[oliver_denom]

Can we recreate the chain of command and apply some public pressure?

Bill
SP
Area Authority
Q70 ?
Q12
FP

Who reports to whom?

Can we find their phone numbers and start leaving messages of support for Bill?

I'm not 100% sure I know where he lives, but I'm pretty certain that he's in the Utah South Area. The area 70's in that region report to Craig C. Christensen of the presidency of the 70. The area 70 from St. George is J. Kevin Ence, but I don't know if that's his assignment.

[mynameisnottom]

Can we recreate the chain of command and apply some public pressure?

Bill
SP
Area Authority
Q70 ?
Q12
FP

Who reports to whom?

Can we find their phone numbers and start leaving messages of support for Bill?

My guess:

RMN--->L Whitney Clayton-->SP--Bill

or

L Whitney Clayton-->SP--Bill

[MoPag]

Go kick some a$$ Bill!!!!

[Corsair]

Bill is one of the good guys. His evolution in tone and philosophy was to begin his series, "The Mythical Jesus" which is more foundationally Christian than anything else I have seen from the faith-transition community. I will be watching this train wreck with interest.

[mynameisnottom]

Bill is one of the good guys. His evolution in tone and philosophy was to begin his series, "The Mythical Jesus" which is more foundationally Christian than anything else I have seen from the faith-transition community. I will be watching this train wreck with interest.

I like Bill and I'm rooting for him. I've also probably listened to every single podcast he has made (some a few times). However....I can't listen to his new Mythical Jesus podcast. I don't know what it is, but I just can't (and I'm still pretty actively and positively engaged in the church and religion).

[Arcturus]

Didn’t Dehlin or was it Jeremy Runnells that had to sign something stating they wouldn’t record? If I recall they were told to sign or else they would proceed in their absence.

Putting integrity aside, what would happen if Bill signed such statement but went ahead and recorded it anyway? Could the action be prosecuted under criminal law? And if not, could the church prove damages sufficient to sue him civilly–and would the church even do that?

[Yobispo]

What recent event forced the Stake President's hand? Was it something that Bill recently had on his website or was it an ultimatum from HQ or both? Is Bill holding up okay?

Bill has been very aggressive on Facebook, including pictures of the apostles with the word LIAR stamped across their faces. He's not wrong and I love Bill, but sometimes I got the impression he was seeing how far he could push it. It takes a long time for some of us to conclude that it doesn't matter what service you have rendered in the past, how much $ you have given, etc. If you're not on the Handcart Zion, then you're out and they don't care about you. Deep down I think Bill (and I) think that the apostles are good guys who really want to do the right thing, but their actions should have made it obvious to us by now that they're not good guys. Still makes me sad to face that.

[MoPag]

Can we recreate the chain of command and apply some public pressure?

Bill
SP
Area Authority
Q70 ?
Q12
FP

Who reports to whom?

Can we find their phone numbers and start leaving messages of support for Bill?

My guess:

RMN--->L Whitney Clayton-->SP--Bill

or

L Whitney Clayton-->SP--Bill

Good call.
Clayton has always been the Q15's little toady doing their dirty work.

https://bloggernacleblog.com/2015/11/13 ... nications/

[Not Buying It]

Didn’t Dehlin or was it Jeremy Runnells that had to sign something stating they wouldn’t record? If I recall they were told to sign or else they would proceed in their absence.

Putting integrity aside, what would happen if Bill signed such statement but went ahead and recorded it anyway? Could the action be prosecuted under criminal law? And if not, could the church prove damages sufficient to sue him civilly–and would the church even do that?

I'd make a recording of them saying they won't let you record or they will proceed with an excommunication without you. No thanks to the Church, Utah is still a one-party consent state, Bill has the right to record a conversation, and if they want to bully him into not recording, he should record that, because that alone is enough to embarrass the Church.

Let's be clear - the Church is bullying Bill. And they want to do it behind closed doors. I say expose them for the bullies they are - they think they can get away with crap like this. Don't let them. They deserve any embarrassment they get.

[Red Ryder]

We all understand the apostles have to protect the name of the church as part of their job duty. So why not freaking own up to it and just summon Bill to appear before them in a grand court of love? Everyone should agree that the church has the right to choose whom to excommunicate! It's their circus, and they can choose who maintains their membership.

Just please stop claiming it's a local leadership matter when we all know it's not!

Will the prophet please stand up and take responsibility! Please?

[Hagoth]

Although, to be fair, Bill did say he thinks his stake president is uncomfortable with the whole situation...

As well he should be. Assuming he believes in Mormonism, he is being asked to do the most hateful, hurtful thing imaginable to a member of his own flock -- to take away his eternal salvation, to take his family away from him for eternity, and to set things in motion the eventual gifting of his wife to another man. All of it for ever and ever and ever.

And why? Because talked about stuff that he found problematic.

I can't quite decide whether to be more amazed at vengefulness and trumped-up self-importance of "servants of God" or the stupid pointlessness of it all.

[Not Buying It]

Although, to be fair, Bill did say he thinks his stake president is uncomfortable with the whole situation...

As well he should be. Assuming he believes in Mormonism, he is being asked to do the most hateful, hurtful thing imaginable to a member of his own flock -- to take away his eternal salvation, to take his family away from him for eternity, and to set things in motion the eventual gifting of his wife to another man. All of it for ever and ever and ever.

And why? Because talked about stuff that he found problematic.

I can't quite decide whether to be more amazed at vengefulness and trumped-up self-importance of "servants of God" or the stupid pointlessness of it all.

He shouldn’t be concerned about his stake president. He stake president may be uncomfortable about the whole thing. He is probably a really nice guy. He is doing what he thinks is right. None of that changes the fact that he is the tool the Church is using to try and silence Bill, rather than addressing the issues Bill brings up. The stake president is the face of the Church, and when he acts in behalf of the Church in his capacity as stake president he isn’t an uncomfortable, nice guy - he is the tool the Church is using to bully Bill into submission.

I say Bill should capture anything unflattering on tape - be it threats to excommunicate him in absentia if he insists on recording, or whatever - and show the world the strong arm tactics the Church uses on its members.