Let's talk about sex

[Angel]

How many people leave the LDS church over sex?

How many leave because they cannot stop masterbating?
How many leave because they are LGBT?
Leave because kids were abused / bad PPI practices / Sam Young issues?
Marriage sexual incompatibility/issues →divorce→broken cov→leave church ?

Just a quick google -

" there is a strong correlation between social conservatism and higher rates of
teen pregnancy, abortion and sexually transmitted diseases."
5 Countries That Do It Better: How Sexual Prudery Makes America a Less Healthy and Happy Place

Conservative states have higher numbers of sex offenders:
Sex Crimes: Here Are 15 States With the Most Registered Sex Offenders

93% of sex offenders describe themselves as “religious” - Abel and Harlow study
sexual abusers within faith communities have more victims and younger victims
Startling Statistics: Child sexual abuse and what the church can begin doing about it


Stuff like this:
Infographic: Masturbation Facts and Statistics


Utah No. 1 in online porn subscriptions, report says


Utah Gov. Gary Herbert signs resolution calling porn a 'health hazard


The conservative/religious/prude approach to sexuality is not working for quite
a few people...

What LDS beliefs do you hold as helpful, vs. which do you see as destructive when it comes to
For the Strength of Youth

Do you agree that "Masturbation is not physically necessary"...just rely on "nocturnal emission or wet dream"
FTSoY

So.... just teach yourself to have really good dreams, and then it is not a sin?

I was in a sexless marriage for most of my life due to the prudish teachings of the church. I exercised, am not bad looking - the stigma and shame around sex is one of the reasons I am leaving. People in Utah are turning to porn instead of their own spouses because of the shame culture that does not cultivate a normal and healthy sexuality for everyone.

Thoughts?
What does a healthy sex life look like to you?

[dogbite]

People with poor internal controls often seek out communities with stronger external controls to help.make up for it. Sex offenders, serial killers and so on are ine seent if the population that has lower internal control. Those studies linking higher incidence of need to account for those types moving in to those communities as well.

As to them having higher religious ty, that too could correlate with seeking external control to help out.

Those studies are fine as far as they go. I'm just saying there is more that could be studied and understood about that population.

[Angel]

People with poor internal controls often seek out communities with stronger external controls to help.make up for it. Sex offenders, serial killers and so on are ine seent if the population that has lower internal control. Those studies linking higher incidence of need to account for those types moving in to those communities as well.

As to them having higher religious ty, that too could correlate with seeking external control to help out.

Those studies are fine as far as they go. I'm just saying there is more that could be studied and understood about that population.

Interesting comment. What do you think should be the correct solution for those who have control issues? Is religion the right answer - teach abstinence etc. that might be impossible for some? or is a better solution to just accept that abstinence is not an option for some people, and teach healthy release mechanisms?

[dogbite]

There's not a universal answer to that in my opinion. It depends on how you think about Identity and Free Will it depends on what you think about Sin, about Prior Restraint. How do you even go about it identifying them beforehand?

We would have to know a lot more about the brain and remedies to what we consider deviancies against the likelihood of actually committing crime.

It's good to think about what we would find as proper solutions but it's very early days on that I think.

[alas]

As far as sexual abuse goes, there are several reasons it is higher in conservative religions, besides sexual repression.

One is traditional gender roles. Another is more pressure to keep family intact. Male priesthood equals male entitlement. To understand the reasons these things contribute to more child sex abuse, you have to understand family dynamics and the kind of thing that increases the probability of sexual abuse in a family.

[Angel]

As far as sexual abuse goes, there are several reasons it is higher in conservative religions, besides sexual repression.

One is traditional gender roles. Another is more pressure to keep family intact. Male priesthood equals male entitlement. To understand the reasons these things contribute to more child sex abuse, you have to understand family dynamics and the kind of thing that increases the probability of sexual abuse in a family.

I think another is a shame culture that makes talking about sex taboo.

[moksha]

What does a healthy sex life look like to you?

Something that puts a smile on your face.

[Angel]

I would like to go through "For the Strength of Youth" and discuss what is healthy, and what is not healthy in it.
https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-stren ... g=eng&_r=1

Chapter 1: Agency and Accountability:
https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-stren ... g=eng&_r=1

What is NOT healthy - there are things that are NOT a choice.
LGBT - do NOT choose their sexual preference
Everyone does NOT choose 100% of their life - do not choose who they were born to, or what resources they have growing up, or what medical conditions they have... Telling kids everything that happens in their life is 100% their choice is wrong and damaging.

Consequences are NOT always the result of your choices. Natural disasters, health conditions etc. etc.
Righteous choices do NOT lead to happiness - take Jesus 12 disciples, 11 of them were brutally murdered. Telling kids their state of "happiness" is a result of their choices is 100% wrong.

A better message - it is ok to not be happy about your situation. A bad situation does NOT mean you are being punished by God.

Loss of freedom comes from disobedience? How about loss of freedom often comes from the situation you were born into - from being born into poverty, or born into an abusive family, or born into a repressive political regime, or born with a medical condition. None of us are free - and it is usually NOT because of disobedience that we are not free.

[Angel]

Chapter 2: https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-stren ... g?lang=eng
Dating...

Don't date until you are 16yo? I guess this did not apply to Joseph Smith who married a 14yo... but whatever...

Choose to date only those who have high moral standards - great, lets encourage teenagers to judge one another and only associate with the "good kids"... let's exclude those from broken families, those who are economically disadvantaged, those who who do not fit the "perfect" LDs stereotypes and tell kids it is perfectly fine - in fact - you should judge those around you and only associate with others who appear to be perfect and moral.

Chapter 3: https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-stren ... e?lang=eng
Dress and appearance

Way different guidelines for boys vs. girls
Jesus said "if your eye offends you, pluck it out", I don't remember him blaming victims telling them their cloths caused their victimization.

Sobering photos show clothes worn by sexual assault victims -
http://college.usatoday.com/2016/05/02/ ... t-victims/
“Well, What Were You Wearing?, Cambareri’s senior thesis project, aims to challenge how society blames survivors of sexual assault by questioning the way they dress...

Judge a book by its cover - let's judge people based on the cloths they are able to afford, let's judge people based on their style of dress... great message for kids?

Chapter 4: Education https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-stren ... n?lang=eng
Finally something to agree with.

Chapter 5: Media https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-stren ... a?lang=eng
I most agree - although I would encourage everyone to research all available data on things like church history - many people cling to cognitive dissonance, refuse to read or view anything that goes against what they have been taught in church. Utah is #1 for porn use, why is this? Telling kids to not watch porn is not working. Perhaps better sex-ed would be more beneficial than "don't educate yourself on that subject"

[Kishkumen]

I haven't read this entire thread. Mostly because this topic is so difficult for me.

The LDS teachings, culture, and experience of human sexually have been extremely detrimental to me. I struggle to take responsibility for my own decisions vs being taught an heavily conservative fundamentalist ideals fo human sexuality. Either way, my life experiences thus far have been negatively influenced by propaganda such as FSoY and other LDS publications/ideals.

[Angel]

I haven't read this entire thread. Mostly because this topic is so difficult for me.

The LDS teachings, culture, and experience of human sexually have been extremely detrimental to me. I struggle to take responsibility for my own decisions vs being taught an heavily conservative fundamentalist ideals fo human sexuality. Either way, my life experiences thus far have been negatively influenced by propaganda such as FSoY and other LDS publications/ideals.

So very sorry Kishkumen.

Sex should not be a painful subject - it should be a fun subject!!

I see it as being similar to voting - sure, you don't get to vote (legally) until you are 18yo (primary at age 17yo) but does that mean we should not talk about voting with kids? or get kids excited about it? Teach them about what it is - as that should be an important part of their lives?? ... so, because kids should not vote until they are 17yo - let's make voting a taboo subject, let's not educate anyone about it, let's call kids sinners for thinking about it (even though how can they not think about it with campaign posters everywhere and all the adults talking about it etc. etc.) it is the same line of reasoning...

We should all be able to talk about sex with the same ease and comfort that we talk about voting.