Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

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Just This Guy
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Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Just This Guy » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:51 am

Recently, DW has decided that she wants to look at churches. She feels she wants to find her own path and meaning in life and part of that is finding a new belief system she can support. She specifically wants something liberal, inclusive, and progressive. That may be church, but it may also be philosophy, or atheism, or whatever we want.

Okay great! Let's start and this thread is to talk about our journey

Week 1. Unitarianism

We started by finding a Unitarian congrigation in the our area. They are on summer schedule. So the last few weeks, they didn't have a full service, but instead had group discussions or televised services. DW tried to get a hold of the congregation to get the plan for Sunday. Unfortuntly, they are not great for responding to Facebook messages.

Unable to confirm what they schedule was, we went in Sunday morning to their published start time (10:45 AM, I found that odd, but okay, whatever.) I guess that week is the week that they really are all on vacation, because no one showed up to the building. We were the only ones in the parking lot.

Oh well. I guess we'll try them again some other time.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Just This Guy » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:17 am

Week 2. Episcopal

Today, we were invited by a friend of DW who is the wife of the former Rector (bishop in LDS terms) of the local Episcopal church. So off we went. 9:00 AM service, summer schedule)

This church is in a 170 year old building that is a study of Gothic architecture. Very interesting building and fascinating the amount of symbolism build into the very walls of the church. Stain Glass windows (some done by Tiffany), candles, wine, crosses, the works. We were introduced to the current Rector. She (Yes, a woman) was very friendly. and gender is a non-issue.

We were greeted by DW's friend. Service was an hour long, but was broken up into a several small sections.
5 hymns.
2 bible readings and 1 Psalm.
10 prayers.
7 minute long sermon
Plate collection and communion (sacrament)

I've been to Catholic Mass once. What I remember of that is very similar to this service. Lots of stand up, kneel down, sit, repeat here. Unfortunately, I was lost for a lot of the program. I wasn't sure if I should be reading from the program, the hymnal or the prayer book. DW started picking up on it towards the end, but I was still struggling.

Afterwards was coffee/punch and refreshments. Even hanging out there for a while, we were still home by about 11:00.


DW's friend send her this as a way to explain the church. It's good for a few laughs and some interesting thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sUazVworSU
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/robin- ... iscopalian
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

Anon70
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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Anon70 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:19 am

I’m enjoying reading about your experience! My DD mentioned again that she’d like to find a “simple” Christian church that focuses on love and service. Me too, me too.

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Emower » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:16 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:17 am
Week 2. Episcopal

Today, we were invited by a friend of DW who is the wife of the former Rector (bishop in LDS terms) of the local Episcopal church. So off we went. 9:00 AM service, summer schedule)

This church is in a 170 year old building that is a study of Gothic architecture. Very interesting building and fascinating the amount of symbolism build into the very walls of the church. Stain Glass windows (some done by Tiffany), candles, wine, crosses, the works. We were introduced to the current Rector. She (Yes, a woman) was very friendly. and gender is a non-issue.

We were greeted by DW's friend. Service was an hour long, but was broken up into a several small sections.
5 hymns.
2 bible readings and 1 Psalm.
10 prayers.
7 minute long sermon
Plate collection and communion (sacrament)

I've been to Catholic Mass once. What I remember of that is very similar to this service. Lots of stand up, kneel down, sit, repeat here. Unfortunately, I was lost for a lot of the program. I wasn't sure if I should be reading from the program, the hymnal or the prayer book. DW started picking up on it towards the end, but I was still struggling.

Afterwards was coffee/punch and refreshments. Even hanging out there for a while, we were still home by about 11:00.


DW's friend send her this as a way to explain the church. It's good for a few laughs and some interesting thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sUazVworSU
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/robin- ... iscopalian
I have been church hopping for fun lately. Episcopalian felt pretty foreign to me. Real nice people, but the service was not something I was real interested in. So far the Methodist congregation seemed pretty laid back and interesting, but I was still the only one younger than age 60 in the building.

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Just This Guy » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:23 pm

One thing that was interesting was that I wore khaki's, a salmon colored shirt and a tie. Compared to most of the men, I was over dressed. There were a few older people in suits, but most middle aged men in suits that were there, they wore dress shirts, but no tie. One man was in shorts and a t-shirt. About half of the women wore pants. DW was thrilled. There was no issue with dress. They were just glad you were there.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by 2bizE » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:08 am

I wonder why the summer schedule concept never made it to Mormonism?
~2bizE

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by BringEmYoung » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:04 pm

I did the church shopping thing about 4-5 years ago. My wife was still TBM at the time. I was very interested in learning about the various denominations and I wasn't ready to let go of the church experience completely. I went to two Unitarian churches but decided I wanted to hang onto the more traditional Christian worship. I'm also attracted to the more solemn church experience and really loved Anglo-Catholic worship services. However, I live in a small town and settled on a local Episcopal church that I've been attending (and play organ for) the last 4 years.

My wife during this time had a faith crisis and ended up joining me there. Now she's been baptized, confirmed, works in the office, and practically runs the place. She's also considered becoming a Deacon.

The liturgy is definitely foreign at the beginning, but we got used to it quickly and learned to love it. I can tell you that, at least in the parishes I'm familiar with, church is very different during the summer. I'd recommend going again after the 2nd week in September to get the full experience. The choir is back, Sunday school starts up again, people are back from vacations, etc.

By the way, If you want to find out what's going on with a particular church, call the office secretary/administrator.

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by orangganjil » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:40 am

Our family also attends a local Episcopal parish. We enjoy the tradition, liturgy, and music - but most of all we enjoy the people. Great people all around who are very welcoming and affirming. It's a place run by people so there are disagreements here and there, but everyone seems to be just trying to support one another in our various spiritual paths.

Best of all: you don't need to check your mind at the door and nobody polices your beliefs.

And if you were lost during the service, nobody cares. Anglicanism (of which the Episcopal Church is a branch) is something that is caught rather than taught, so just sit back and take it in.

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Just This Guy » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:01 am

One thing that sod out to me this week is the music.

First off there is a lot of it. Much more than in an LDS service.

Next, one of them was a psalm. It was interesting to have a traditional bible verse set to music. We are always told in Mormonism that the Psalms were supposed to be songs, but we never sing them. even the Tab. Choir only has one or two psalms in their library and they never sing those that I can tell.

Next, one of the song we sung was "Guide Me Oh Thou Great Jehovah." That one threw me for a loop. Same music as the Mormon "Guide Us, O thou Great Jehovah." Similar lyrics, but different enough that you can't go off memory. A reminder of how much Mormonism rips off other works.

At the end of the service, as a postlude, they played "Kingsford Trumpet." I initially was not failure with the tune. However, withing a few notes, I was laughing out loud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0VmpNq4IDg

It's the music that "If you could Hie to Kolob" uses. It was a reminder of the bats**t crazy theology that I was leaving behind and considering new alternatives to. It was an interesting way to close a meeting. The irony was completely lost to everyone my DW and I.

Finally, after the meeting, DS wandered over to look at the organ console. He plays piano and is quite good despite being very young still. The organist was more than willing to invite him up and show him around and let him try it out. The organ in this church is a full pipe organ that also has chimes and a horn system. So they can really have some fun with it. DS enjoyed that. He was a bit nervous playing an instrument of that caliper, but I think HE would get used to it if he was given the opportunity.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by moksha » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:33 am

Is there a United Church of Christ in your area? http://www.ucc.org/
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by moksha » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:46 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:01 am
At the end of the service, as a postlude, they played "Kingsford Trumpet." I initially was not familiar with the tune. However, within a few notes, I was laughing out loud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0VmpNq4IDg

It's the music that "If you could Hie to Kolob" uses.
Star of the County Down is my favorite variation of that tune. This one is by Loreena McKennitt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xj6okkx0EE

After hearing that version, I can imagine many a young elder would like to convert Rosie McCann.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:37 am

On my mission, I came a cross a version of "If You Could Hie to Kolob" done on electric guitar. It was done in a minor key with a slight reverb on the vocals. That gave it an amazingly creepy feeling. I actually really like that version just for how different it is. The Tape I got it on was labeled as by "Elder Miller." I don't know who that actually is. He had some good music. I copied some of the songs off that tape to MP3, so the fidelity is not the greatest. I wouldn't mind picking up a CD of his work.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:40 am

Week 3.

We took this week off. We we are still interested in UU, but they are closed this week for the Labor Day holiday. So this week was a nice homemade breakfast with the kids, cleaning the house, and visiting the horses. Next week we'll see what we can get into.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Hagoth » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:06 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:17 am
I've been to Catholic Mass once. What I remember of that is very similar to this service. Lots of stand up, kneel down, sit, repeat here.
FWIW, I had been to mass once before I got my temple endowment and was kind of snooty about how impractical all of the Simon says stuff seemed, compared our church. Then I went to the temple and was shocked at how much of the endowment consisted of stand up, sit down, repeat here.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:33 pm

One difference with Episcopalian church compared to Mormonism is that they do not take their history or doctrine nearly so seriously. They are perfectly willing to say that the bible maybe mostly historical fiction. Yeah the church was started by a guy who was looking for a way to divorce his wife so he could run around with other women without guilt. They are willing to let stuff go for the sake of the the core faith.

DW is the main one heading up the search. The way she puts it is that Mormonism tells you to look at them, examine the evidence and them decide if you want to join. She never did that across the board, so is now going to do the same with other churches and see what she comes up with. She admits that a some of it is that she misses the community from Mormonism, part of it is trying to figure out a new philosophical view of the world. Part of it is that she misses the "answers" to life, the universe, and everything.* So she is trying to find a new outlook on life and rewrite her script for life and death.



* I keep telling her that the answer is 42 but that doesn't satisfy her. So much for 4.5 million years of work.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

BringEmYoung
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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by BringEmYoung » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:38 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:01 am
Finally, after the meeting, DS wandered over to look at the organ console. He plays piano and is quite good despite being very young still. The organist was more than willing to invite him up and show him around and let him try it out. The organ in this church is a full pipe organ that also has chimes and a horn system. So they can really have some fun with it. DS enjoyed that. He was a bit nervous playing an instrument of that caliper, but I think HE would get used to it if he was given the opportunity.
Good! Most organists love to show off their instrument. And we need more organists. I'd think it would be a great side-hussle for high schoolers and college students.

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:35 pm

DIdn't get a chance to go to church this Sunday. Between sleeping in and taking the youngest to gymnastics practice, we were not able to work it in.

However, DW and I got invited to dinner Saturday night with the wife of the former Rector of the Episcopalian church we went to a couple weeks ago. Her husband was rector (bishop in Mormon terms) until he suddenly passed away a bit over a year ago. She technically is not ecstatically trained, but she sat through most of the courses with her husband because she could audit classes for free with her spouse at the theological school he attended.

So we spend the evening with a good Italian meal, (including wine and espresso) and talked religion.

To her credit, it was absolutely no pressure on our host's part. It was a back and forth Q&A for all of us. We discussed everything from the nature of the trinity, to freewill, to Mormon temples, and the psychology of Mormons vs Episcopalians.

In the end it was very interesting. DW has always had trouble understanding the traditional view of the trinity. According to her, she may still not fully believe it, but it at least makes sense. We had a lot of questions back and forth about our various religions.

An enjoyable Saturday evening.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

BringEmYoung
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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by BringEmYoung » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:19 pm

Nice, what a great opportunity to learn. By the way, I have yet to go to any social setting with Episcopalians outside of coffee hour where there wasn't significant amounts of wine. It's quite funny. In fact, I got to try some homemade plum wine at the last one and liked it so much I started a batch of my own fruit wine.

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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:26 pm

You know are are in an Episcopalian church: when looking for a can opener in the kitchen, all you can find is four corkscrews.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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moksha
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Re: Zaphod's Church Shopping Story

Post by moksha » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:34 pm

BringEmYoung wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:19 pm
By the way, I have yet to go to any social setting with Episcopalians outside of coffee hour where there wasn't significant amounts of wine. It's quite funny. In fact, I got to try some homemade plum wine at the last one and liked it so much I started a batch of my own fruit wine.
Great idea. This would allow exploring or former Mormons to use their Mason jars for something other than home canning. Just clearly add a compass and square symbol on some masking tape along with the type of fruit and you would be good to go.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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