Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
User avatar
profit_seizer
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:59 pm
Location: rose city
Contact:

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by profit_seizer » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:06 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:44 pm
This makes me wonder: don't we have knowledge of 2nd annointings done in the Nauvoo temple? Do we have records of who received them? I'm guessing Joseph Smith died before he received them but it would be interesting to know if he did, or if it is recorded.
It sounded like some people upthread potentially had credible sources on that...that records of second anointings were PUBLIC in the early Utah days. And then I found, a....this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_anointing There's a wikipedia page about it and I didn't know about it?!?!
deacon blues wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:44 pm
By the way-- Kudos to 'profit-seizer' for a great..... uh, picture thingy.
Thank you kindly, Deacon. Verily, Left Twitter doth provide me my daily memes. (But this is one of the best for sure.)
"The history of human thought recalls the swinging of a pendulum which takes centuries to swing. After a long period of slumber comes a moment of awakening." —Peter Kropotkin

User avatar
IT_Veteran
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:36 pm
Location: California

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by IT_Veteran » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:18 pm

Random wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:05 pm
Does anyone know when the Mattsons' interview will be on Mormon Stories?
They dropped four new episodes today (three this morning, one more this afternoon). They are the panel interview (including Hans bot not Brigitta). The one that dropped this afternoon is a recording of the "rescue" meeting eight years ago.

Hoping that since the Mattson's interview was day 2, it'll drop tomorrow. I'm definitely looking forward to listening to it.

User avatar
Random
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:44 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by Random » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:39 pm

Thanks. I look forward to it, too.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

User avatar
2bizE
Posts: 1743
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by 2bizE » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:01 pm

I’ve tried for years to get my wife to massage my feet. Now I just need to perform a second anointing with her and get my feet washed and rubbed all under the secret doctrine of the church.
~2bizE

User avatar
Mormorrisey
Posts: 867
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:54 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by Mormorrisey » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:28 am

Hans and Brigitta's interview is now up on Mormon stories.

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/truth-seeking/

The whole thing is really good, they are just the neatest people. (Said in my Ned Flanders voice.)
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

User avatar
GoodBoy
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:32 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by GoodBoy » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:11 am

I just listened to this. I'd like to nominate Hans and Brigitta Mattson to be the new prophet. He is seriously a good man.
Always been the good kid, but I wanted to know more, and to find and test truth.

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 4469
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by Hagoth » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:22 am

GoodBoy wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:11 am
I just listened to this. I'd like to nominate Hans and Brigitta Mattson to be the new prophet. He is seriously a good man.
I just finished listening and found it very touching. I wish everyone in the church could hear this just to understand how good these people are and how much pain and sacrifice they endured in coming to terms with their new understanding. I liked the story about the member who wrote them a scathing and condemning email and then wrote back with profuse apologies after they read Hans' book.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Random
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:44 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by Random » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:46 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:28 am
Hans and Brigitta's interview is now up on Mormon stories.

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/truth-seeking/

The whole thing is really good, they are just the neatest people. (Said in my Ned Flanders voice.)
Thank you!
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 4469
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by Hagoth » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:08 am

Random wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:05 pm
Does anyone know when the Mattsons' interview will be on Mormon Stories?
It's up now: https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/truth-seeking/
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Random
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:44 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by Random » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:52 pm

Thank you.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

emrysfellows
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:49 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by emrysfellows » Mon May 25, 2020 5:02 am

I would like to add some details to the Tom Phillips' story and his second anointing experience. He is right about the date, Sunday the 19th of may 2002. I know this because I used to work at the Preston Temple (security department) and that day I was working. So I can confirm that Tom Phillips and his wife were not among the people who attended the temple that day.

When I arrived to the temple my companion who I had to relieved told me that I should stay at the recommendation desk because some General Authorities and others members would attend the temple and I was told that a member of the temple presidency was already there (My companion was mistaken. it was not a temple presidency member, the brother already there was Brother Atkins , the temple recorder). I was shocked for the information. So the first to show up was Elder Ballard and followed by Elder and sister Hillam and Elder and sister Peterson. After checking all their recommendations they disappeared. About 20 minutes later, I think, the couples arrived one after another one. They were taken by Elder Peterson and led them inside while Elder Hillam informed me that nobody was allowed to get into the temple. I was also informed that the doors must be locked and I could not leave the recommendation desk under any condition.

I think it was around one later, Elder Hillam came to me and asked me to followed him. I was informed that one of the sisters fainted on the floor and my help was needed ( I was a first aider). He took me to the big sealing room which is normally used for living sealings. Once inside, I noticed that only the couples were wearing temple clothes. The G.A. and their wives where wearing white clothing as temple workers. After helping the sister, I was told to return to my place at the recommendation desk.

Around one later, all the couples were living the temple escorting by the G.A. and Elder Ballard and the other G.A, went back inside. A few minutes later, all of them were ready to leave but Elder Ballard approached to me and said to the others that he wanted to talk to me. I was shocked. My legs were shaking. He took me to the temple presidency office and told me that he knew that I had questions. I was very nervous and said that everything was alright. He insisted and said that it was a unique opportunity to ask him about it. So I was brave and said that if the portable golden horn at the living sealing room was for the second anointing and the white jars and white basin in the other sealings rooms were used to the washing of feet ordinance. He took my hand and shook it firmly and with a big smile said to me that all my questions had been answered. We were heading to the main door and they left.

I would like to say again at this point that Brother Tom Phillips and his wife were not among the couples that day. So it is not true his tale about the second anointing.
So, this couple is also lying about their second annointing. It is a way to gain popularity and to be heard

emrysfellows
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:49 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by emrysfellows » Mon May 25, 2020 5:06 am

I would like to add some details to the Tom Phillips' story and his second anointing experience. He is right about the date, Sunday the 19th of may 2002. I know this because I used to work at the Preston Temple (security department) and that day I was working. So I can confirm that Tom Phillips and his wife were not among the people who attended the temple that day.

When I arrived to the temple my companion who I had to relieved told me that I should stay at the recommendation desk because some General Authorities and others members would attend the temple and I was told that a member of the temple presidency was already there (My companion was mistaken. it was not a temple presidency member, the brother already there was Brother Atkins , the temple recorder). I was shocked for the information. So the first to show up was Elder Ballard and followed by Elder and sister Hillam and Elder and sister Peterson. After checking all their recommendations they disappeared. About 20 minutes later, I think, the couples arrived one after another one. They were taken by Elder Peterson and led them inside while Elder Hillam informed me that nobody was allowed to get into the temple. I was also informed that the doors must be locked and I could not leave the recommendation desk under any condition.

I think it was around one later, Elder Hillam came to me and asked me to followed him. I was informed that one of the sisters fainted on the floor and my help was needed ( I was a first aider). He took me to the big sealing room which is normally used for living sealings. Once inside, I noticed that only the couples were wearing temple clothes. The G.A. and their wives where wearing white clothing as temple workers. After helping the sister, I was told to return to my place at the recommendation desk.

Around one later, all the couples were living the temple escorting by the G.A. and Elder Ballard and the other G.A, went back inside. A few minutes later, all of them were ready to leave but Elder Ballard approached to me and said to the others that he wanted to talk to me. I was shocked. My legs were shaking. He took me to the temple presidency office and told me that he knew that I had questions. I was very nervous and said that everything was alright. He insisted and said that it was a unique opportunity to ask him about it. So I was brave and said that if the portable golden horn at the living sealing room was for the second anointing and the white jars and white basin in the other sealings rooms were used to the washing of feet ordinance. He took my hand and shook it firmly and with a big smile said to me that all my questions had been answered. We were heading to the main door and they left.

I would like to say again at this point that Brother Tom Phillips and his wife were not among the couples that day. So it is not true his tale about the second anointing.
These couple is laying as Tom Phillips. Thew saw how good was for Tom this tale and now they are using the same to deceive because it is nearly impossible to disprove them.

User avatar
Mormorrisey
Posts: 867
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:54 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon May 25, 2020 6:48 am

Boy, I had forgotten about this thread. And a couple of weeks ago, I re-listened to the Mattsson's interview, just because I'm stuck at home and I love to hear their soothing accents. So I have a few questions, if I may, about the account you have written here.

I have no reason to dispute your story, and clearly this is going to be a he said/she said kind of thing between you and Tom Phillips. So I'm even going to concede to you that your version is absolutely correct, and that Tom Phillips's story is a load of bollocks. Fair enough?

So how are you absolutely sure that the Mattsson's are lying about their experience?

Just because in your version of events Tom Phillips is being less than truthful about being there that day, does it logically follow that the Mattsson's are? Are you assuming that all ex-mormons are liars and deceivers? All the Mattsson's said about Tom Phillips in their interview is that his account of the second anointing was correct, and that was their experience with the ordinance as well. And listening to the interview, I'm sure Brigitta said it just to cut to the chase about the details of the ordinance. So I'm not sure you can paint the Mattsson's with the same brush that you are trying to paint Tom Phillips with, especially as their second anointing took place on another date, in the Frankfurt temple. Unless you are a roving security guard for all the temples in Europe?

And to me, if anything, your account simply confirms that the ordinance exists, it's super secret, and it doesn't matter to me if both Tom Phillips and the Mattssons are lying about it, it's the ordinance that's the problem. It's a church within a church, it's elitist, it makes Jesus irrelevant, and as alas stated earlier in this thread, it is simply un-Christian.

So I do thank you for your account, again I have no reason to dispute it, but it certainly doesn't change my mind.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 4469
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by Hagoth » Mon May 25, 2020 7:38 am

Emrysfellows, do you believe Tom and the Mattsons made up the details of the 2nd anointing? Before Phillips' story the details of foot washing were totally unknown to the general membership, but you just verified that part. I'm just wondering how Tom would know that.

Also, what do you think of the possibility that 2nd-anointees use "proxy" names when they arrive at the temple to ensure their anonymity in case of discussions like the one we're having here? Code names were used in Joseph Smith's day by people in the inner circle to protect their identities.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 3158
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by moksha » Mon May 25, 2020 7:59 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:38 am
Also, what do you think of the possibility that 2nd-anointees use "proxy" names when they arrive at the temple to ensure their anonymity in case of discussions like the one we're having here? Code names were used in Joseph Smith's day by people in the inner circle to protect their identities.
A direct reference to Brothers Pink, Green, and Brown in the Reservoir Dogs Temple at Flaming Gorge.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
alas
Posts: 1556
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by alas » Mon May 25, 2020 1:26 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:48 am
Boy, I had forgotten about this thread. And a couple of weeks ago, I re-listened to the Mattsson's interview, just because I'm stuck at home and I love to hear their soothing accents. So I have a few questions, if I may, about the account you have written here.

I have no reason to dispute your story, and clearly this is going to be a he said/she said kind of thing between you and Tom Phillips. So I'm even going to concede to you that your version is absolutely correct, and that Tom Phillips's story is a load of bollocks. Fair enough?

So how are you absolutely sure that the Mattsson's are lying about their experience?

Just because in your version of events Tom Phillips is being less than truthful about being there that day, does it logically follow that the Mattsson's are? Are you assuming that all ex-mormons are liars and deceivers? All the Mattsson's said about Tom Phillips in their interview is that his account of the second anointing was correct, and that was their experience with the ordinance as well. And listening to the interview, I'm sure Brigitta said it just to cut to the chase about the details of the ordinance. So I'm not sure you can paint the Mattsson's with the same brush that you are trying to paint Tom Phillips with, especially as their second anointing took place on another date, in the Frankfurt temple. Unless you are a roving security guard for all the temples in Europe?

And to me, if anything, your account simply confirms that the ordinance exists, it's super secret, and it doesn't matter to me if both Tom Phillips and the Mattssons are lying about it, it's the ordinance that's the problem. It's a church within a church, it's elitist, it makes Jesus irrelevant, and as alas stated earlier in this thread, it is simply un-Christian.

So I do thank you for your account, again I have no reason to dispute it, but it certainly doesn't change my mind.
This.

I don’t care if the date of Tom Phillips account is wrong or if he got some details wrong or if he made the whole thing up. Your account confirms the fact that some secret ceremony exists and the scripture in D&C 130 says that people who have had this secret ceremony are given a free pass to heaven except for murdering anyone under the age of 8 (the only “innocent”) and that goes against the basics of Christianity, therefore the Mormon church is NOT Christian and thus I want no part of it. So, your account only serves to confirm that such a ceremony exists in the Mormon church, which confirms that the top leadership of the Mormon church are not Christian, which confirms my choice to leave.

It was actually reading D&C that convinced me that the Mormon church is not the church of Jesus Christ of any day. Because God does not give men a free pass to sin while forcing women into a marital system that is basically slavery. Period.

As far as foot washing, Christ washed his disciples feet, as a way of showing them that it is the leader’s job to serve. Just as the Pope today washes the feet of his followers and when I hear that Russel Nelson is washing the feet of the homeless in SLC, maybe I will consider him a follower of Christ. but I won’t hold my breath.

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 4469
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by Hagoth » Mon May 25, 2020 2:35 pm

alas wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 1:26 pm
...when I hear that Russel Nelson is washing the feet of the homeless in SLC, maybe I will consider him a follower of Christ. but I won’t hold my breath.
Like Sam Young you mean? As I recall, while he was doing that Russell Nelson stayed in the ivory tower and, along with every single other Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, refused to even cast a shadow at street level.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 2729
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by Red Ryder » Mon May 25, 2020 4:44 pm

emrysfellows wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 5:06 am
I would like to add some details to the Tom Phillips' story and his second anointing experience. He is right about the date, Sunday the 19th of may 2002. I know this because I used to work at the Preston Temple (security department) and that day I was working. So I can confirm that Tom Phillips and his wife were not among the people who attended the temple that day.

When I arrived to the temple my companion who I had to relieved told me that I should stay at the recommendation desk because some General Authorities and others members would attend the temple and I was told that a member of the temple presidency was already there (My companion was mistaken. it was not a temple presidency member, the brother already there was Brother Atkins , the temple recorder). I was shocked for the information. So the first to show up was Elder Ballard and followed by Elder and sister Hillam and Elder and sister Peterson. After checking all their recommendations they disappeared. About 20 minutes later, I think, the couples arrived one after another one. They were taken by Elder Peterson and led them inside while Elder Hillam informed me that nobody was allowed to get into the temple. I was also informed that the doors must be locked and I could not leave the recommendation desk under any condition.

I think it was around one later, Elder Hillam came to me and asked me to followed him. I was informed that one of the sisters fainted on the floor and my help was needed ( I was a first aider). He took me to the big sealing room which is normally used for living sealings. Once inside, I noticed that only the couples were wearing temple clothes. The G.A. and their wives where wearing white clothing as temple workers. After helping the sister, I was told to return to my place at the recommendation desk.

Around one later, all the couples were living the temple escorting by the G.A. and Elder Ballard and the other G.A, went back inside. A few minutes later, all of them were ready to leave but Elder Ballard approached to me and said to the others that he wanted to talk to me. I was shocked. My legs were shaking. He took me to the temple presidency office and told me that he knew that I had questions. I was very nervous and said that everything was alright. He insisted and said that it was a unique opportunity to ask him about it. So I was brave and said that if the portable golden horn at the living sealing room was for the second anointing and the white jars and white basin in the other sealings rooms were used to the washing of feet ordinance. He took my hand and shook it firmly and with a big smile said to me that all my questions had been answered. We were heading to the main door and they left.

I would like to say again at this point that Brother Tom Phillips and his wife were not among the couples that day. So it is not true his tale about the second anointing.
These couple is laying as Tom Phillips. Thew saw how good was for Tom this tale and now they are using the same to deceive because it is nearly impossible to disprove them.
Are you still a temple recommend holder and attend? I think Ballard was super nice to answer your questions.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 1434
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by jfro18 » Mon May 25, 2020 6:01 pm

Is there a good resource that goes over the history of the second anointing? I believe it was common with polygamy early on and then got more and more scarce as time went on?

Does anyone know of the script being anywhere? Aside from the interviews with Tom Philips and Hans/Brigitta, I don't know that I've ever heard much about it.

Although I will say, before I converted I was in a Sunday School session and our SS teacher spent the entire hour talking about the second anointing. I can't imagine that would be OK these days, but it was the lesson that stuck with me the most through my time in Mormonism... I was floored by it -- and in a good way... he really made it sound like the most incredible thing ever and I bought into it hook, line, and sinker.

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 4469
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Hans and Brigitta Mattson, 2nd and 3rd Witnesses for the 2nd Anointing

Post by Hagoth » Mon May 25, 2020 8:21 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:01 pm
. I was floored by it -- and in a good way... he really made it sound like the most incredible thing ever and I bought into it hook, line, and sinker.
Too bad you weren't well connected to the right families. It would be a lot less stressful and more motivating to have your calling and election made sure. You would probably find it much easier to be a happy believer.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests