The Ninety Day Challenge

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Brent
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The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by Brent » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:17 pm

Folks keep asking "Why would the Leader of the Church challenge us to read the Book of Mormon in 90 days?"

Here's the the answer:

Because he knows they won't.

Ask yourself this: what has the Church taught every member to do? Lie. White lies. I remember asking a gentleman at church if he had done his home teaching. He said "Yes. 100%" I walked down the hallway and the head of one of his families waved me over. "Look, we haven't been home taught in 5 months. Who's my home teacher?"

A lie. A lie to cover what hadn't been done.

What does telling a lie require us to do? It requires support; we must keep telling the lie. Lies need to be maintained and maintaining the lie leads to our believing the lie.

I believe that from the start, the constant challenges, the checking, the push to do it and do it right leads to that place where members give out, it can't be done--so they lie to avoid the pressure. Could be scripture memorization in seminary, or memorizing the Articles of Faith in Primary, or Home or Visit teaching as a young adult, or during a worthiness interview--at some point to--capital L--Lie is easier. The pressure is immense and sometimes the easiest way to relieve it is to Lie.

Imagine: You're in your quarterly "Ministering" interview and the EQP or RSP asks, "How have your visits with Sister Smithereens been going?" Now, you've talked to Sister Smithereens at church but you haven't been in her home so you say, "GREAT! I sure do enjoy her company."
You know you're being asked if you've made in-home visits but you've got a kernel of truth to hang on--you have visited with her in the restroom at church. It's a lie, you know it's a lie but you tell it to get someone off your back.

Now, imagine you're in EQP or RS and everyone is chatting about how true the Book of Mormon is and how much more true it becomes every single time your read it. What if the RSP looks at you and says, "You've had the same experience haven't you Sister Johnson?" What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO? You lie because it's the easiest way to get back under the radar. The idea of saying, "Well, it's dry as three day old toast and my kid has cheer practice and I have to get up at 5 to make bread and..." You get the drift.

Latter-day Saints are nuanced liars. I was. You may be. There is no difference between "Secret" and "Sacred" one is truth, the other an excuse...and a LIE. How many LDS will complete the 90 day challenge? Less than 5% of the active population. How many will say they did depends on who's asking. At church it'll be 100% when an authority figure asks.

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Hagoth
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by Hagoth » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:16 pm

I remember how I responded to a similar challenge when I was a teenager. I flipped through every page of the book and ran my eyes across it just slowly enough to be certain that every word had entered my field of view. I reported that I had read the entire book and I got the candy bar, or whatever they were handing out as a reward. Seemed legit to me at the time. No one ever said I had to "comprehend the Book of Mormon in 90 days."
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Corsair
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by Corsair » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:44 am

Brent wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:17 pm
Folks keep asking "Why would the Leader of the Church challenge us to read the Book of Mormon in 90 days?"

Here's the the answer:

Because he knows they won't.
That's a an idea that is so crazy it just might be right. Virtually no one will question each other on their reading status. Most ward members will sigh and feel the guilt of not reading then publicly shame themselves in fast and testimony meeting. Many ward members will simply assume they are surrounded by fellow saints who have faithfully obeyed the prophet and read that book one more time. They will faithfully pile the guilt onto their own heads.

The believers who actually read the Book of Mormon will pat themselves on the back for that spiritual checkmark easing their conscience. The slackers who read 1 Nephi 1:1 but never reach Moroni (or possibly Jacob) will redouble their flimsy resolve to follow Russell's prophetic counsel in other areas of their life. Maybe they will correct your use of the word 'Mormon'. Every ward is going to end up with a few fervent testimonies of how this latest reading has produced some new insights for them.

But frankly, if you claim to have read the Book of Mormon yet again, no one will argue with you or ask for any kind of proof. How would you "prove" that you did or did not read it? Just sit with the book open and your phone hidden in the pages and spend an hour a day browsing porn (spiritual porn, like NOM or Reddit, you filthy heathens). After 90 days you can tell everyone you read through the Book of Mormon! Just look on Pinterest or Instagram for some trendy spiritual insight from someone else who (allegedly) read the Book of Mormon. You could even pull out FairMormon or some Nibley books if you want to sound scholarly.

Or, maybe just find something actually interesting and fulfiling to read and spend your time on authentic pursuits.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by Rob4Hope » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:36 am

I'm seeing this from a different angle that is really sad. At one time I was an educator. The #1 discussion in the teachers lounge area was the disintegration of the student's behavior. Of course, none of them ever wondered about the unnatural requests being placed on students to sit for some 6-8 hours a day in a classroom and be quiet and self controlled that entire time. But that is a different discussion.

Anyway, along with that disintegration of behavior came a drop in ability--not just having the ability in the first place, but also massive apathy. It was during this time I did some research myself, and one statistic that shocked me (I don't know if its still true) is the alliteracy that is moving across this country. Notice,...I didn't say illiteracy with an 'I' in there...I said alliteracy with an 'A' in there. That latter one means people who CAN read but choose NOT to read.

As I recall, the statistic went like this: "On average, when a North American leaves school, they read less than one full book the remainder of their life."

Now, here is my point tying this into this thread. The Book of Mormon is EASY READING. I admit, boring,...but its not like reading James Talmage,..OK? Its at a much lower level.

And people can't read it in 90 days? How many of those people even read anything else? According to that crazy statistic, not many for sure...

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2bizE
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by 2bizE » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:41 pm

I just finished reading the BOM. Only took a few weeks. Nelson would be so proud of me.
~2bizE

dogbite
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by dogbite » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:57 pm

I was on the 8 week MTC model for foreign languages. You had an hour a day to study and read the Book of Mormon. I finished in week 6 as I recall. No one else in my district of 10 got through it. I was surprised I was the only one. there was no shortage of time.

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Hagoth
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by Hagoth » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:13 pm

Rob4Hope wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:36 am
As I recall, the statistic went like this: "On average, when a North American leaves school, they read less than one full book the remainder of their life."
That's sad.

If find it interesting that some people roll their eyes at the suggestion that Joseph Smith borrowed things from other books. "How could he have read all those books?" Spoiler: unschooled frontier 19th century Americans were far more well read than the majority of high school educated 21st century Americans.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:24 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Rob4Hope wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:36 am
As I recall, the statistic went like this: "On average, when a North American leaves school, they read less than one full book the remainder of their life."
That's sad.

If find it interesting that some people roll their eyes at the suggestion that Joseph Smith borrowed things from other books. "How could he have read all those books?" Spoiler: unschooled frontier 19th century Americans were far more well read than the majority of high school educated 21st century Americans.
Especially ones that hated farm work and would rather look for treasure.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by Rob4Hope » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:45 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:13 pm
Rob4Hope wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:36 am
As I recall, the statistic went like this: "On average, when a North American leaves school, they read less than one full book the remainder of their life."
That's sad.

If find it interesting that some people roll their eyes at the suggestion that Joseph Smith borrowed things from other books. "How could he have read all those books?" Spoiler: unschooled frontier 19th century Americans were far more well read than the majority of high school educated 21st century Americans.
D. Michael Quinn said clearly in his "Magic World View" book that the statement attributed to Lucy Mack Smith that her son Joseph didn't read much, or that he was somehow illiterate, is a total myth.

The church apologists like to comment on how poor a speller JS was, and that this contributed to the accounts of him only having a 3rd-grade education and how it could NOT be possible for him to write the BoM.

I'm a HORRIBLE SPELLER and I have an advanced degree! Does spelling problems make me stupid?...or incapable?....or illiterate? I READ A FREAKING LOT! And, let's just step back a moment and consider that JS also had hearing problems and didn't listen to ANYONE! I mean, after all, has anyone on this site EVER listened to an audible book? Or...shucks....has anyone here ever listened to someone speak about something?...you know....like a story or something?

Whether JS Jr. read books or not doesn't discount the fact he was HIGHLY influenced by those around him, and the money digging circles probably sat around and had LONG talks about their craft. GAWD...HOW STUPID <or cunning> of the church to think that JS didn't have sources!

Anyway,...Hagoth, you are correct: 19th century Americans WERE some of the most literate people in the world. There is factual information to back that up. When Horace Mann and John Dewey came around and moved things away from the parochial school to compulsory public school, and when they got away from the McGuffey Readers, that is when things went to hell. We are now one of the most aliterate and illiterate countries there is.

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Hagoth
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by Hagoth » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:14 pm

Rob4Hope wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:45 am
The church apologists like to comment on how poor a speller JS was, and that this contributed to the accounts of him only having a 3rd-grade education and how it could NOT be possible for him to write the BoM.
The news flash here is that most people were bad spellers in the early 19th century. Spelling was not as standardized as it is now and it was common practice for people to spell intuitively. Many of Joseph's scribes were not much better. Joseph used a lot of frontier grammar too. Apparently so did the seer stone. Here are some excerpts from the original manuscript of the Book of Mormon, dictated by Joseph and recorded by his scribes, and, needless to say, "translated by the gift and power of God."

“therefore I have wrote this epistle”, (3 Nephi 3:5)
“Adam and Eve, which was our first parents" (1 Nephi 5:11)
"and this he done that he might subject them to him" (Alma 2:10)
"that they did not fight against God no more" (Alma 23:7)
“they done all these things”, (Ether 9:29)
“when they had arriven to the promised land”, (Mosiah 10:15)
“and also much horses”, (Enos 1:21)
“as I was a going thither”, (Alma 10:8)
“and this shall be your language in them days”, (Helaman 13:37)
“they were not sufpiceentle strong to meet them”, (Alma 56:23)
“whosoever will com may come & partak of the waters of life”, (Alma 42:27)
"the workmenshup thereof was exceding fine”, (145:34)
"their yuarrelings & their plunders there idoleti and their whoardoms“, (Alma 50:21)
"i also beheld a Strait and mrrough path which came”, (1 Nephi 8:20)
"after that i had truvededror the space for of menny hours”, (1 Nephi 8:8)

(R. Skousen, Grammatical-variation, interpreterfoundation.org, R. Skousen, The Original Manuscript of the Book of Mormon: Typographical Facsimile of the Extant Text, FARMS)
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Palerider
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by Palerider » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:52 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:24 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Rob4Hope wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:36 am
As I recall, the statistic went like this: "On average, when a North American leaves school, they read less than one full book the remainder of their life."
That's sad.

If find it interesting that some people roll their eyes at the suggestion that Joseph Smith borrowed things from other books. "How could he have read all those books?" Spoiler: unschooled frontier 19th century Americans were far more well read than the majority of high school educated 21st century Americans.
Especially ones that hated farm work and would rather look for treasure.
And didn't have television.....

Once the sun goes down at approx. 6:30 every evening for the entire winter, books and story telling are your only forms of entertainment, aside from the occasional barn dance and some homecraft.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Hagoth
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by Hagoth » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:41 pm

Brent wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:17 pm
What does telling a lie require us to do? It requires support; we must keep telling the lie. Lies need to be maintained and maintaining the lie leads to our believing the lie.
One thing I learned on my mission in the deep South is that a lot of Christians build their lives around their faith in the Bible as a symbol at least as much as on anything that it actually says. Most have not actually read it and are pretty much limited to what they are told in church. Many believe the Bible supports everything they believe because it is a symbol of their belief. It is a black box that contains whatever they need it to contain to support their world view. In general, atheists are much more Bible-literate that Christians.

I think it's the same with the Book of Mormon. We say we read it but we don't. Except for the verses we're asked to read in Sunday school, or as a daily exercise in casting our eyes across the pages. I am quite certain, from outside-of-church conversations, that some of the people in my ward who give the most fervent testimonies of the Book of Mormon do not read it and possibly never have. But the believe it with all their hearts. They do not know that the religion of the Nephites is significantly different than modern Mormonism, and in a way that really doesn't matter. The Book of Mormon is a totem to rally around as a symbol of their acceptance of the faith. It's a thing to do as a sign of devotion when things aren't going well for you. The actual words aren't so important, but if you're reading a few verses every day you're doing the work, and sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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hiding in plain sight
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by hiding in plain sight » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:22 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:13 pm


If find it interesting that some people roll their eyes at the suggestion that Joseph Smith borrowed things from other books. "How could he have read all those books?" Spoiler: unschooled frontier 19th century Americans were far more well read than the majority of high school educated 21st century Americans.
Which is easier. For Joseph Smith to have read books, listened to preachers teaching 19th century theology and have access to the KJV of the bible?

Or for Lehi, Nephi, Alma, Mormon and Moroni to have read those exact same books, listened to those exact same ministers and had access to the KJV of the bible?

I go with Joseph being the easier answer.

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Hagoth
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by Hagoth » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:31 am

hiding in plain sight wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:22 am
Hagoth wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:13 pm


If find it interesting that some people roll their eyes at the suggestion that Joseph Smith borrowed things from other books. "How could he have read all those books?" Spoiler: unschooled frontier 19th century Americans were far more well read than the majority of high school educated 21st century Americans.
Which is easier. For Joseph Smith to have read books, listened to preachers teaching 19th century theology and have access to the KJV of the bible?

Or for Lehi, Nephi, Alma, Mormon and Moroni to have read those exact same books, listened to those exact same ministers and had access to the KJV of the bible?

I go with Joseph being the easier answer.
Apologetic answer: all faiths have some truths, so those preachers were tapping into the same spiritual sources, albeit in a feeble and incomplete way. How is it, I have asked, that Moroni quoted Paul word-for-word from the KJV? Easy. Paul, Moroni, and the translators of the KJV were all getting their inspiration from the same source.

Why are you so cynical and filled with the spirit of contention? It's so easy to understand if you'll just soften your heart a little. Next topic.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by RubinHighlander » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:13 am

Corsair wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:44 am
Brent wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:17 pm
Folks keep asking "Why would the Leader of the Church challenge us to read the Book of Mormon in 90 days?"

Here's the the answer:

Because he knows they won't.
Virtually no one will question each other on their reading status. Most ward members will sigh and feel the guilt of not reading then publicly shame themselves in fast and testimony meeting. Many ward members will simply assume they are surrounded by fellow saints who have faithfully obeyed the prophet and read that book one more time. They will faithfully pile the guilt onto their own heads.
Biggest difference between LD$ and $cientology - auditing. The COB makes sure every unit is audited financially. COB corporate members are audited only somewhat and occasionally, a few temple recommend questions and do teenagers masturbate. Scientology audits it's members on a regular basis down to every thought and deed they do or don't do. I'm sure there's lots of white lies there too, but the pressure would certainly be much greater.

In primary and as youth we got gold stars for memorization and reading of the dogma. As adults it's about guilt trips, especially in FAT meetings where a few of the great families get up and say how much it's changed and blessed their lives, meeting the 90 day challenge. There will probably be 2-5 per ward, making all the other TBMs feel like crap.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
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Corsair
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by Corsair » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:51 am

RubinHighlander wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:13 am
In primary and as youth we got gold stars for memorization and reading of the dogma. As adults it's about guilt trips, especially in FAT meetings where a few of the great families get up and say how much it's changed and blessed their lives, meeting the 90 day challenge. There will probably be 2-5 per ward, making all the other TBMs feel like crap.
This is a good point. No one will give me any official gold stars for memorization any longer even though it is a more definitive proof that I am seriously reading the Book of Mormon. They might be impressed, but reciting long passages from the Book of Mormon looks presumptuous and even prideful.

The problem for undercover unbelievers today is that getting the proverbial gold star today looks like these:
  • Attending all of your meetings
  • Attending the temple regularly
  • Actually doing your home teaching/"ministering"
  • Fulfilling your callings
  • Showing up to help at service projects (moving people, mowing the lawn of the widows)
Notice that "regularly reading your scriptures" is not an item, but "other people largely believe you are regularly reading your scriptures" actually would make a difference. It's similar for "paying tithes and offerings". As long as your bishop gets some kind of thin assurance that you are "allegedly paying tithes and offerings" then he probably won't bother you. In other words, lying still works, just as if you also claimed that you fulfilled the 90 day challenge.

Only the service project item on that list holds any real interest to me. Part of my ridiculously slow burn out is simply not doing any of those other items as much as possible. I expect to come under the scrutiny of some dilligent bishop eventually. But it likely won't be until I turn down a calling like "Ward Mission Leader".

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hiding in plain sight
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Re: The Ninety Day Challenge

Post by hiding in plain sight » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:37 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:31 am

Apologetic answer: all faiths have some truths, so those preachers were tapping into the same spiritual sources, albeit in a feeble and incomplete way. How is it, I have asked, that Moroni quoted Paul word-for-word from the KJV? Easy. Paul, Moroni, and the translators of the KJV were all getting their inspiration from the same source.

Why are you so cynical and filled with the spirit of contention? It's so easy to understand if you'll just soften your heart a little. Next topic.
Good apologetics. I believe I would have answered like that as a TBM as well.

It is just kind of funny, that of all of the apostles and prophets over the dispensations, the only time we see God's representatives quoting word for word from sources they don't have is the Book of Mormon.

I wonder why all of the other dispensations missed out on that neat little trick????

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