Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

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consiglieri
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Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by consiglieri » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 pm

Last night Bill Reel received a summons to his disciplinary court.

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/201 ... -imminent/

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wtfluff
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by wtfluff » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:37 pm

Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Who taught you how to hate?

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Palerider
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by Palerider » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:53 pm

Talk about a deceptive letter.

It's important that we trust one another. That's why I'm having you sign this legally binding non-disclosure agreement. And all of your witnesses have to first meet with my approval or they can't testify.

Can these guys speak out of both sides of their mouth or what!?!?

Total, unmitigated h0rse$h!t. :evil:
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Red Ryder
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:00 pm

What happens if he does record it?

Would they go after him?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Palerider
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by Palerider » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:58 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:00 pm
What happens if he does record it?

Would they go after him?
Might make them look even worse, but legally I think they could sue him.

But the language about recordings here just sounds stupid when you stop and think it through.

"Doing so would be a serious violation of the ecclesiastical purposes governing such council's and of the trust that is necessary for disciplinary councils to be effective."

Have you ever heard such trash? What does it even mean?

Sounds to me like, "We won't feel free to speak the way we normally would if we know the public might be listening."

And again with the"trust" thing. We trust ourselves to do whatever we want to you and we trust you as long as you do whatever we tell you to do. See? Isn't that a nice relationship?

These guys and their church and their leaders really suck in a big way. They're disgusting. :x
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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moksha
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by moksha » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:14 pm

Palerider wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:58 pm
"Doing so would be a serious violation of the ecclesiastical purposes governing such council's and of the trust that is necessary for disciplinary councils to be effective."
That seems to be a good rewrite by the Church's law firm of Kirton McConkie from the original quotation, "We don't want people to know the crap we will be pulling, so keep quiet or you'll be sleeping with the fishes". Much less threatening.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Palerider
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by Palerider » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:03 pm

moksha wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:14 pm
Palerider wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:58 pm
"Doing so would be a serious violation of the ecclesiastical purposes governing such council's and of the trust that is necessary for disciplinary councils to be effective."
That seems to be a good rewrite by the Church's law firm of Kirton McConkie from the original quotation, "We don't want people to know the crap we will be pulling, so keep quiet or you'll be sleeping with the fishes". Much less threatening.
You forgot the part about the mandatory strip and body cavity search before you are permitted to enter the Inquisition Chambers for your "court of love".
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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nibbler
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by nibbler » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:12 pm

Palerider wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:58 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:00 pm
What happens if he does record it?

Would they go after him?
Might make them look even worse, but legally I think they could sue him.
Sue him for what? Damages?
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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Palerider
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by Palerider » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:26 pm

nibbler wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:12 pm
Palerider wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:58 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:00 pm
What happens if he does record it?

Would they go after him?
Might make them look even worse, but legally I think they could sue him.
Sue him for what? Damages?


On the church's part this might be more of an attempt to intimidate by threatening to be the "Boogie man". They seem to prefer working through intimidation much more than reconciliation in these courts of love. They're probably looking at it from the point of view that if the member has come this far afield in the process, they're most likely a "gonner" anyway so let's just try to scare the hell out of them. Something a bully would do.


From www.quora.com


Non-disclosure agreements are governed by contract law. Unlike other areas of the law and subject to a few exceptions, contract law does not provide for penalties. Even a party that willfully and intentionally breaches a contractual obligation will not be punished for it by the court. Instead, the non-breaching party is entitled to sue for damages. Damages are usually measured in one of four ways:

(1) Expectation damages, which means putting the non-breaching party in the same position it would have been if there had been no breach. This is calculated by taking the amount of revenue lost by the non-breaching party caused by the breach less the amount of costs that the non-breaching party was able to avoid because of the breach.

(2) Restitution damages, which means to return the parties to the position they were in before the contract. In this instance, each party returns to the other that which it has received as a result of the contract. This is usually an alternative remedy and is only available if the parties can in fact be returned to their original position.

(3) Recovery damages, which means the breaching party paying to the non-breaching party the costs that the non-breaching has incurred in performing the contract up to the time of the breach.

(4) Disgorgement. This measure of damages requires the breaching party to pay to the non-breaching party any amounts that it has received under the contract.

In the situation of a breach of a non-disclosure agreement, the damages are usually measured in terms of the harm done to the non-breaching party. That party will have to show what injuries it has suffered as a result of the breach, such as the cost to re-secure the lost secrets, the profits earned by the entity to which the secrets are divulged, etc.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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deacon blues
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by deacon blues » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:06 pm

The non-disclosure thing is really lame. Did Joan of Arc have to sign a non-disclosure statement? Not that Bill would be tortured like Joan of Arc, but it just seems like the move of a bully- sucker punch me while some one else is holding me. But bullies are known for this kind of thing. That alone would almost make me resign instead of justifying the bogus court. I also wonde: could Bill could write up a statement and just have the court sign it, showing that they read it?
God is Love. God is Truth

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Hagoth
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by Hagoth » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:17 pm

I believe Jesus was also forced to sign an NDA. Just to make it clear that he was not breaching the contract he was required to declare "forgive them father," even after they had nailed him to the cross.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by Rob4Hope » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:27 pm

I said in another post, this is the turf of the church. And I think its pretty clear Bill is gunna be Exed,....period.

My question is why even waste the time? Why go through the hassle?

We seem to forget the major power the church has over people's lives is what we give it. If you don't go to church, don't pay tithing, don't give a crap about the church...then how are you influenced by the church? Not much (unless you are in Utah and political collusion, among other things, happens). My point is why give the church power and even respectability by honoring, through attendance, this sham of a "court of love"? If Bill attends, he is respecting the meeting happening in the first place. At least that seems to be a possibility IMHO.

In hind site (and I have been in a similar place as Bill) why not skip the meeting and walk?

It doesn't make sense to me now why people stay involved. Examples could be:

1. Trying to change the rules of Bishops asking children about their sexual habits. WHY NOT JUST REFUSE TO MEET WITH THE BISHOP? You know, that kindof solves the problem...you know?
2. Having "courts of love" where you will NOT be heard, you will not be listened to, and you will be persecuted (perhaps made an example of) for recording things. WHY ATTEND THE MEETING IN THE FIRST PLACE? Because you feel an obligation to open yourself up for abuse?
3. Why work to have the LDS church change rules about what they do, how they do it, etc. WHY not just walk away?

When LDS people, be they nomers or not, work inside the rules (or even respect the rules), do they not add a sense of legitimacy to that which they are working with? My position now is the church has no legitimate position.


OK...Ok...Ok....Rant over. This is all my opinion, and I'm open for rebuttal. I know Bill has stated multiple times the LDS church is "his Tribe"...and as such, he cares about it. So perhaps this court is the way Bill will break that final cord. Having gone through discipline (that makes me laugh typing that) myself, I would not have allowed the court had I known what I know now. I would have walked and not graced the "courts of love" with my presence. Those guys don't deserve that level of respect, or even deference. They don't listen, are closed minded, and are messengers for the likes of Boyd Packer or Oaks in HQ.

Sorry for the Rant.

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deacon blues
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by deacon blues » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:39 pm

I'm no expert, but if Bill types up a defense and asks the Church court to sign they can: A) refuse to sign and ex Bill anyway. Bill can then publish his defense and say the court refused to listen, or B) the court can read and sign the paper, ex Bill or not, and Bill can say they read my defense and still publish it. It seems like he has a little more control over the proceedings.
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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:15 pm

I have gone through various scenarios in my head about showing up for church courts. I'm thinking the Jeremy Runnels method is best, except I wouldn't bother listening to charges, just let everyone get dressed up in Sunday best, drive to the stake center, gather round the HC table, opening prayer, hand them my resignation papers and tell everyone to have a nice night, and leave stage left without shaking any hands.

I also wonder if you were to bring donuts if anyone would partake or if they would fear being poisoned.

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Palerider
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by Palerider » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:13 pm

This was one of the early conclusions I came to. The church is not true. Their covenants are false and non-binding. They have lied to and defrauded their membership. Therefore I owe them nothing. They don't deserve my respect. I can disregard any summons they may send. I feel no obligation whatsoever to respond to their false and usurped authority.

It's the equivalent of the obnoxious little kid next door donning his police officer Halloween costume and telling you, you're under arrest.

The response should be, "Not right now kid, I'm trying to make up for lost time with a real life adventure."
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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wtfluff
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by wtfluff » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:45 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:15 pm
I have gone through various scenarios in my head about showing up for church courts. I'm thinking the Jeremy Runnels method is best, except I wouldn't bother listening to charges, just let everyone get dressed up in Sunday best, drive to the stake center, gather round the HC table, opening prayer, hand them my resignation papers and tell everyone to have a nice night, and leave stage left without shaking any hands.


I also wonder if you were to bring donuts if anyone would partake or if they would fear being poisoned.

The scenarios I run through in my pea-brain are similar to this. The only thing I would do different would be to look each of them in the eyes and tell them that they literally know nothing about me, yet they feel the need to rip my "eternal salvation" away from me. What they would be doing is punishing my believing family members, not me.

Oh, and the PBR tall-boys that I handed out (instead of donuts,) I'd probably gather them back up. It's a crappy mild barley drink, but "the council" are not going to partake, I might as well not let them go to waste. :o
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Who taught you how to hate?

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Hagoth
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by Hagoth » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:44 am

I keep wondering how people on the counsel who know Bill aren't seriously conflicted about spiritually hacking him to pieces for eternity, but I imagine they are repeating over and over in their heads, " It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief."

Dwindle they will, with or without Bill Reel. But perish? Not so much.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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2bizE
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by 2bizE » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:26 am

Well, Bill has spoken ill of the only Q15 from St. George. That won’t help his case.
~2bizE

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IT_Veteran
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by IT_Veteran » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:07 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:44 am
I keep wondering how people on the counsel who know Bill aren't seriously conflicted about spiritually hacking him to pieces for eternity, but I imagine they are repeating over and over in their heads, " It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief."

Dwindle they will, with or without Bill Reel. But perish? Not so much.
I was listening to his recent Mormon Stories interview on the way to work today. He said he doesn't know anybody on the HC so I'm sure to them he's just another angry apostate.

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wtfluff
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Re: Bill Reel--Disciplinary Court is Imminent

Post by wtfluff » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:56 am

IT_Veteran wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:07 am
Hagoth wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:44 am
I keep wondering how people on the counsel who know Bill aren't seriously conflicted about spiritually hacking him to pieces for eternity, but I imagine they are repeating over and over in their heads, " It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief."

Dwindle they will, with or without Bill Reel. But perish? Not so much.
I was listening to his recent Mormon Stories interview on the way to work today. He said he doesn't know anybody on the HC so I'm sure to them he's just another angry apostate.
Yep. I doubt anyone on the HC knows anything about Bill besides his name, and what the Steak President has told them about Bill. They're merely puppets in the Q15's sadistic little game.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Who taught you how to hate?

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