NOM

So you get a knock on your door and two gentlemen hand you a letter stating theire will be a church court for your apostate ways. Would you go, resign, or just ignore it.

I think I would go just for the fun of it. Maybe make some jabs about how ludicrious it all is. I would have no illusion I could change any minds, but it might be an entertaining meeting.

I'd go and I would just interview them on historical issues.

They likely wouldn't reply to my questions so I'd just answer for them.

Like you said it probably wouldn't change any minds, but I would absolutely go and let them know that they can excommunicate me, but they can not change their history, and their history proves the church to be a fraud.

In my imaginary world, I think I would go as well and try and have a reasonable and rational conversation as to why I no longer believe in the church's truth claims.

But in reality, I would probably take the power away from them and just resign.

Resign. I don't recognize their authority over me and have no desire to feed their collective ego with a kangaroo court where they can look down their noses at me and tsk-tsk me as if I were a wayward child and they the wise and morally superior. I have no more room in my life for subjecting myself to the condescension of the foolish and deluded.

In other words, I'd be happier telling them to shove their court invitation straight up their sphincter-puckered asses.

Bill Reel's court was last night. He did an IOT interview this morning, and said that he went through a list of problems in the church, and saw more than one High Councilman's shelf start to crack. So you could go to the court, and try to bring several out with you!

A New Name wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:49 pm

Bill Reel's court was last night. He did an IOT interview this morning, and said that he went through a list of problems in the church, and saw more than one High Councilman's shelf start to crack. So you could go to the court, and try to bring several out with you!

Someone really messed up by allowing him to speak about his problems about the church. From what I have heard this is almost never allowed in a court of love when apostasy is involved.

I think I would show up with a resignation letter in my pocket. I would hear what they had to say about me and then, based on the chill factor, either try to have a discussion or hand over the note. Either way, I would love to have it end with the arrival of a pizza or donuts delivery.

I went with the resignation letter.

To my way of thinking, after giving the church ample opportunity to repent and come clean, without success, I was left with no choice but to excommunicate them. Leadership in particular.

They were very cowardly in not answering the questions themselves. They hid the truth or mitigated for themselves when the truth was obvious. They refused to accept any responsibility for continuing a fraud. They took the money of the poor and enriched the church. They covered up for sinful characters who should have gone to jail for molesting the innocent. They accept and encourage near worship and adulation from weak minded, fawning members. They are like whited sepulchres, which indeed appear outwardly beautiful but within are full of dead men's bones.

Yep....it was time for them to go.

No choice but a Palerider court of love.

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:35 pm

I think I would show up with a resignation letter in my pocket. I would hear what they had to say about me and then, based on the chill factor, either try to have a discussion or hand over the note. Either way, I would love to have it end with the arrival of a pizza or donuts delivery.

Man... this is the best idea really.

Get the court date and then have the resignation letter ready so that if things do go south and they won't let you speak, you just hand it over and tell them where to go. The pizza order would just fully cement what a circus the whole thing is, and while I wouldn't be outright antagonistic, it would be great to make sure they knew the meeting was on my terms as much as anyone else's.

To me it would be a chance to tell them what I think about historical/doctrinal/scriptural issues and use my time to force them to listen to it... and the moment they tried to truly shut me down or whatever I'd just walk out. They have no more power over me than any stranger off the street does.

I don't think they'll ever come for any of us, but if it weren't for the anguish it would cause my wife, I would be putting my name all over the ldsdiscussions website to practically beg them to do it.

Exed even though i wouldnt attend. My family to whom the exing would matter all know me and know the grounds for my exing reflect on the churchs stupidity, not me. If I resign, it's on me.

Well...

Am I going to get an opportunity like Bill Reel did, or the Jeremy Runnells version of "court"?

Like Hagoth, I think I would show ready to resign. If I were not given any opportunity to "defend" myself, I would at least like the opportunity to look all of them in the eye and tell them that they know nothing about me, and them revoking the "eternal benefits package" that I purchased from LDS-Inc. will really hurt my believing family members much more than anyone else. Then I'd resign.

And if it were to turn south, I would make sure to take any and all refreshments I had provided with me. I already gave the corporation too much, no reason to give the puppets any more.

I think if you resigned there'd be a greater chance of well meaning members showing up in an effort to get you to rejoin. If you are ex'ed then people would probably try to avoid you.

I think I'd file a harassment claim. I've asked them to leave me alone and they refuse.

I would just be grateful that these two Church Elders did not try to burn me at the Stake.

I would not want to be part of a Chuch that did not want me. Since I am still religious, I would seek out a faith tradition that was kinder and gentler. Thank goodness they have not come for me, but my heart goes out to those who are in that situation.













i

It's pointless for me now, but before I resigned, I had a dream of doing the following:

Send in my resignation, but time it so that it would go though the day of the COL.

Attend, but use my time to show how they are not following church rules and give them a through condemnation for abuse of power (D&C 121). and make sure they know that they are condemning themselves by their actions. At the end, I would pull out the resignation, just to show them that I has wasted their evening for a pointless meeting as they had wasted my time and effort. I would leave with my head held high.

It's a very personal question and all of the answers so far are what will work for them. But my choice would be to attend my disciplinary council. And bring donuts. Seriously, attend the meeting like it's simply another boring fireside and bring treats. I would not at all expect to have this make a difference in the outcome. But it would be amusing to see how the stake president and high council would react to me showing up with carbs for my own inquisition.

I think it would load some shelves in an amusing way. Like Just This Guy noted, I could watch for them not following the process and I could use my authority as "Lord of the Donuts" to restrict people that do not follow the rules. "No donut for you!" will be my response to cutting me off or being unkind. Two people can play the game of "unrighteous dominion (of donuts)". It would show that their power is strictly limited to what I grant to them. And I insist on donuts.

1smartdodog wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:35 pm

So you get a knock on your door and two gentlemen hand you a letter stating theire will be a church court for your apostate ways. Would you go, resign, or just ignore it.

I'd ask them why they are holding a church court for someone who is not a member (II ruin so many of these hypotheticals by being Exmormon rather than NOM).

I think I would go just for the fun of it. Maybe make some jabs about how ludicrious it all is. I would have no illusion I could change any minds, but it might be an entertaining meeting.

It could be interesting to sit in on a church court for the novelty of it. Some good jabs or zingers though are lost if there isn't an audience to appreciate them though.

dogbite wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:10 pm

Exed even though i wouldnt attend. My family to whom the exing would matter all know me and know the grounds for my exing reflect on the churchs stupidity, not me. If I resign, it's on me.

I think that would be interesting. Get ex’d but still go to church. Take the sacrament, raise your hand in Sunday school. Basically act like nothing happened. I wonder if the bishop or someone would try to stop you?

1smartdodog wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:21 am

dogbite wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:10 pm

Exed even though i wouldnt attend. My family to whom the exing would matter all know me and know the grounds for my exing reflect on the churchs stupidity, not me. If I resign, it's on me.

I think that would be interesting. Get ex’d but still go to church. Take the sacrament, raise your hand in Sunday school. Basically act like nothing happened. I wonder if the bishop or someone would try to stop you?

Sam Young said that on his first day back in church after he was ex’d, the deacon walked right past him and didn’t give him the opportunity.

IT_Veteran wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:22 am

1smartdodog wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:21 am

dogbite wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:10 pm

Exed even though i wouldnt attend. My family to whom the exing would matter all know me and know the grounds for my exing reflect on the churchs stupidity, not me. If I resign, it's on me.

I think that would be interesting. Get ex’d but still go to church. Take the sacrament, raise your hand in Sunday school. Basically act like nothing happened. I wonder if the bishop or someone would try to stop you?

Sam Young said that on his first day back in church after he was ex’d, the deacon walked right past him and didn’t give him the opportunity.

Yep, according to the handbook the Bishop has the obligation to safeguard his ward from Interlopers. He can inform the excommunicated person that his actions and comments must be in accordance with church doctrine and policy or he can put a "gag order" on the offender.

If the offender doesn't comply he can be escorted off church property.