"There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

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consiglieri
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"There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by consiglieri » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:23 am

Below is the money quote from one of the high councilmen at Bill Reel's disciplinary hearing last Tuesday night.

The context for this quote is that it is toward the end of the hearing.

Several high councilmen are asked by the stake president to render their opinion on whether the proceedings have been fair to Bill Reel. All say yes.

Then several high councilmen are asked by the stake president to render their opinion on whether the proceedings have been fair to the church.

That is when one high councilman drops this bombshell.
Yeah, I think this has been an opportunity to understand your point of view. I think that the purpose of the council, as was mentioned at the first—your integrity is not in question at all. It isn’t. The purpose of this council is to look at protecting the integrity of the church. And you mentioned that as well. And uh, but I believe that pretty much as you outlined every step of your presentation—if all that stuff (indistinguishable] there is no integrity left in the church. And so [indistinguishable] There are a lot of nuances there. You are a very intelligent man. You’ve looked at sources as you’ve said [indistinguishable] All the information there leaves the church with zero integrity.

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:34 am

Amen RFM. Hope we can get more details in the future if BR chooses to reveal them.

Do you anticipate the church adjusting its procedures on DC's for apostasy based on this profound event? I can't imagine any SP who would want to expose his church broke leaders to this stuff.

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RubinHighlander
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Re:

Post by RubinHighlander » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:50 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:34 am
I can't imagine any SP who would want to expose his church broke leaders to this stuff.
I agree. I can totally see them making adjustments to how they handle these situations in the future. BR broke some new ground here by laying it all out in a way that showed he had integrity with sincere and real factual issues on the table in a very fair and well presented manner. He was fortunate his local leaders allowed that as I'm sure this is not often the case. But with their current handbook procedures they are painted into a corner. Either it looks and smells like a kangaroo because they handle it badly or the evidence get's put on the table for all to see and shakes things up, like it did in this case. If the COB changes policy and procedure they look bad like they refuse to face up to the truth. If local leaders try to take it head on, the "just have faith" mantra looks like a poor response. Church loses either way.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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Coop
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by Coop » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:57 am

consiglieri wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:23 am
Below is the money quote from one of the high councilmen at Bill Reel's disciplinary hearing last Tuesday night.

The context for this quote is that it is toward the end of the hearing.

Several high councilmen are asked by the stake president to render their opinion on whether the proceedings have been fair to Bill Reel. All say yes.

Then several high councilmen are asked by the stake president to render their opinion on whether the proceedings have been fair to the church.

That is when one high councilman drops this bombshell.
Yeah, I think this has been an opportunity to understand your point of view. I think that the purpose of the council, as was mentioned at the first—your integrity is not in question at all. It isn’t. The purpose of this council is to look at protecting the integrity of the church. And you mentioned that as well. And uh, but I believe that pretty much as you outlined every step of your presentation—if all that stuff (indistinguishable] there is no integrity left in the church. And so [indistinguishable] There are a lot of nuances there. You are a very intelligent man. You’ve looked at sources as you’ve said [indistinguishable] All the information there leaves the church with zero integrity.
Does this mean you recorded the meeting? And if so are you planning to release the recording?

All the best,
Bob

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Corsair
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by Corsair » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:22 am

I know that Bill promised to not record the meeting. I would likely have been the bad guy and made sure that a recording happened through some nefarious means.

consiglieri
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by consiglieri » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:24 am

Strangely, the document Bill was required to sign in order to attend his own disciplinary hearing appears to make no mention of a promise to not record the proceedings . . .

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DPRoberts
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by DPRoberts » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:36 am

IOW there is nothing to protect. Well said anonymous high councilman.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

consiglieri
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by consiglieri » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:56 am

consiglieri wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:24 am
Strangely, the document Bill was required to sign in order to attend his own disciplinary hearing appears to make no mention of a promise to not record the proceedings . . .

Below is a transcript of the entirety of the document participants at the disciplinary council were required to sign.

See if you can find any promise that the participants not record the proceedings.

Confidentiality Agreement and Acknowledgement

By signing this document, I acknowledge and agree to the following:
• I acknowledge that disciplinary councils in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are considered sacred and confidential. Therefore, participants are not allowed to make recordings of the proceedings, or to otherwise disclose or transmit the substance of the proceedings.
• I agree that I will not make use of any audio, video recording, or transmission of the entire meeting or the disciplinary council.
• I acknowledge that I have been asked not to make or permit anyone else to make any electronic transmission or any compilation of this disciplinary council.
• I acknowledge and agree that my participation in the disciplinary council is conditioned on this agreement and I will not be allowed to be present at the council if I do not sign this Acknowledgement and Agreement.

[Signature Lines in two columns]

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StarbucksMom
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by StarbucksMom » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Ummmm, what? Am I missing something? The document clearly says you can't record the meeting, or make any of it public.

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2bizE
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by 2bizE » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:38 pm

If we have a copy of the signature line it probably is signed Paul Blart or something like that. Just because there is an audio recording doesn’t mean it was recorded by Bill.
~2bizE

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Emower
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by Emower » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:53 pm

consiglieri wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:56 am
consiglieri wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:24 am
Strangely, the document Bill was required to sign in order to attend his own disciplinary hearing appears to make no mention of a promise to not record the proceedings . . .

Below is a transcript of the entirety of the document participants at the disciplinary council were required to sign.

See if you can find any promise that the participants not record the proceedings.

Confidentiality Agreement and Acknowledgement

By signing this document, I acknowledge and agree to the following:

• I agree that I will not make use of any audio, video recording, or transmission of the entire meeting or the disciplinary council.
• I acknowledge that I have been asked not to make or permit anyone else to make any electronic transmission or any compilation of this disciplinary council.
• I acknowledge and agree that my participation in the disciplinary council is conditioned on this agreement and I will not be allowed to be present at the council if I do not sign this Acknowledgement and Agreement.

[Signature Lines in two columns]
Ok, I feel dumb but the line where it says:
I acknowledge that disciplinary councils in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are considered sacred and confidential. Therefore, participants are not allowed to make recordings of the proceedings, or to otherwise disclose or transmit the substance of the proceedings.
Is there some reason that this does not qualify as a directive to not record it?

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Rob4Hope
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by Rob4Hope » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:02 pm

One of the things that is interesting is that the church wants to use a legal means to prevent someone from recording the council. However, the church would also balk if that person (BR) said: "I'm not signing anything until I've had my attorney look it over and advise me."

By there being a recording made, I suppose the church would get all huffy about it and perhaps threaten something....but what a mess that would make! Can you imagine the church getting into a legal battle over this?...with little Bill Reel?

This makes me laugh.

If Bill signed it, he did it under duress....and THAT can in itself cause a skirmish.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by Rob4Hope » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:05 pm

consiglieri wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:56 am
• I acknowledge that disciplinary councils in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are considered sacred and confidential. Therefore, participants are not allowed to make recordings of the proceedings, or to otherwise disclose or transmit the substance of the proceedings.
This at face value is a lie. There would have been a clerk in that room TAKING NOTES. Was he not a participant? Will he not "transmit the substance of the proceedings" to the COB?

I guess I just don't understand this.

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Hagoth
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by Hagoth » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:17 pm

I agree that I will not make use of any audio, video recording, or transmission of the entire meeting or the disciplinary council.
I can see a possible weakness that it does not say "entire meeting or any portion thereof." Is that the loophole?

Either way, if Bill did make a recording and if he releases it isn't there some danger of people saying, "well, so much for this integrity we've been hearing about." If someone else made the recording that's a different story, of course.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Red Ryder
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by Red Ryder » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:41 pm

I'm guessing Mike Norton bugged the room. He posted video on FB of KULT news reporting as he walked through the building.

"Let's get out of here, this place gives me the creeps!"

https://www.facebook.com/10000949064507 ... 18/?type=3

If not Mike Norton, then someone else recorded from outside with standard recording equipment you can buy off the internet.

It's probably safe to say Bill Reel didn't record it, but someone did.

Consig, can NOM have the exclusive transcript dropped here first? That would be cool.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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IT_Veteran
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by IT_Veteran » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:21 am

When someone on FB suggested bugging the room, Mike actually responded that it would be illegal and he did not recommend anyone do so. I think he figured out a way to record it, certainly, but I don’t know if that was the approach.

If so, congratulations on the set he carries around every day.

consiglieri
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Re: "There is No Integrity Left in the Church"

Post by consiglieri » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:28 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:41 pm


Consig, can NOM have the exclusive transcript dropped here first? That would be cool.
Keep your eyes on Bill's Facebook page.

Tick tick tick ...

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