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Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:51 am
by moksha
My gosh, those two photos above by Hagoth represent the Miracle of the White Shirts. That would make a nifty Christmas program for KBYU.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:19 pm
by wtfluff
Hagoth wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:50 am
moksha wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:43 am
1smartdodog wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:11 am
Hence they can proclaim the most trivial things to be direction from God.
Like when the suggestion was made that deacons wear white shirts and ties when passing the sacrament. Pretty soon it became the official uniform of the priesthood.

Wonder if Wendy and Sherri have any favorite tunes to add to the hymnal?
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That graphic.

Is.

Awesome!

So did the white shirt uniform come in to existence with correlation? Mid to late 70's? Anybody know if there was a specific memo encouraging us minions to start to dress like clones?

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:17 pm
by Lloyd Christmas
Really cool 1972 vs 2018 conference picture. Really shows the contrast.

The white shirt uniform came from a general conference talk by Eyring in early 2000s. He used the symbology of the pure white shirts...that it shouldn't be a requirement, but it was in a way an unofficial uniform and he encouraged priesthood holders to wear them on Sunday. Slowly it became more and more widespread of a practice. My last couple years of being active, it was pretty much required to bless or pass the sacrament. Similar to I think it was Kimball who said he wouldn't drink caffeinated soda. It was never a requirement, but those wanting to stay as far from the ledge as possible and follow every tenet to the letter adopted it, to the point where people still often think Mormons in general don't drink coke.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:21 pm
by Lloyd Christmas
Sorry, it was Holland in a 1995 talk.

"May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions.

That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic. We do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament (see Conference Report, Oct. 1956, p. 89)"

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:36 pm
by wtfluff
Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:17 pm
The white shirt uniform came from a general conference talk by Eyring in early 2000s.
Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:21 pm
Sorry, it was Holland in a 1995 talk.
I remember being encouraged, if not commanded to wear a white shirt to pass the sacrament in the early 80's.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:36 am
by moksha
Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:21 pm
As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament (see Conference Report, Oct. 1956, p. 89)"
IBM Corporation was of the same mindset with their requirement of a white shirt, tie, and dark blue or grey business suits. They thought it conveyed both a professional business image and emphasized the sacredness of the holy mainframes and Selectric typewriters.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:43 am
by Just This Guy
Hagoth wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:50 am
Image
It would be interesting to go back through pics of conference though the years and see when you really start to get the uniform taking hold.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:48 am
by Hagoth
Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:21 pm
That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic.
And yet that's exactly what happened. If he had not hoped that would be the case there would have been no reason for him to make the subtle commandment, knowing as he does the flock mentality of the listeners.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:42 am
by blazerb
Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:21 pm
Sorry, it was Holland in a 1995 talk.

"May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions.

That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic. We do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament (see Conference Report, Oct. 1956, p. 89)"
As a young man way back in the day, I never wore a white shirt to church. I also participated in the sacrament fully. Then I went on my mission in the late 80's to a 3rd world country. There, the leaders required white shirts. I was aghast. I thought that white shirts were only required for missionaries. I spoke up, but it made no difference. Then I got home. My home ward was still not requiring white shirts, but they seemed to be the proper uniform at BYU. It still bugs me.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:12 am
by Yobispo
Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:21 pm
Sorry, it was Holland in a 1995 talk.

"May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions.

That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic. We do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament (see Conference Report, Oct. 1956, p. 89)"
So he DOES want them unduly concerned with the purity in their lives? Yes, he does.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:48 am
by Palerider
Hagoth wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:48 am
Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:21 pm
That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic.
And yet that's exactly what happened. If he had not hoped that would be the case there would have been no reason for him to make the subtle commandment, knowing as he does the flock mentality of the listeners.
Yep. It becomes a game of who can follow the prophet most strictly "without being commanded in all things" and turns into counting how many steps you are allowed to take on the Sabbath. "Commandments of men". One-upmanship righteousness.

By the time I was called into the Bishopric in the early 2000's my Stake President looked at me in the interview and said very emphatically, "We're a "white shirt stake" Bro. Palerider." I then realized my light cream colored shirt wasn't acceptable any longer even though it went well with my suit.... :|

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:57 pm
by deacon blues
Adventism (which is in the LDS Church DNA) automatically creates urgency. Change in the Church is often spoken of as a "Sign" that the advent of Jesus is near. A fact that we need to face is that Adventism has been around since New Testament times, and even before. Jesus taught adventism, but also warned against its abuse. (remember that false prophets shall deceive the very elect? Matt. 24) Yet it is still a strong motivational device. I wonder if 19th century adventism in most or all of its manifestations, is a sign that organized religions use it to promote their growth agendas. No wonder people get turned off by organized religion.

by the way, the picture is priceless, Hagoth. :lol:

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:06 am
by Not Buying It
Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:21 pm
Sorry, it was Holland in a 1995 talk.

"May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions.

That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic. We do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament (see Conference Report, Oct. 1956, p. 89)"
It is a shallow mind indeed that thinks the color of your shirt is a reflection of your character. No wonder the people of Utah are #1 in being scammed by con men when they are taught you can tell how worthy and trustworthy a person is by the color of the shirt they wear on Sunday. You know, I have to say that I firmly believe the gullibility that the Church has to foster in its members to get them believe all its nonsense leaves them susceptible to all kinds of other nefarious nonsense peddling con artists. Inculcating credulity in your members beginning at a young age will tend to leave them vulnerable to those who know how to exploit it.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:59 am
by slavereeno
My TBM Mother assured me that all these changes are because Jesus is coming, like really soon guys.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:59 am
by Blashyrkh
slavereeno wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:59 am
My TBM Mother assured me that all these changes are because Jesus is coming, like really soon guys.
That was the consensus during ftm at church two weeks ago. The bishop started crying about how the wheat and tares are being separated now. My lovely wife just looked at me and rolled her eyes. She is coming along well.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:31 am
by Anon70
Blashyrkh wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:59 am
slavereeno wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:59 am
My TBM Mother assured me that all these changes are because Jesus is coming, like really soon guys.
That was the consensus during ftm at church two weeks ago. The bishop started crying about how the wheat and tares are being separated now. My lovely wife just looked at me and rolled her eyes. She is coming along well.
Can confirm this is the belief in my neck of outer darkness as well. In two meetings this week, lots of tears were shed at how we need to protect our youth because Satan is working harder than ever because they’re the mostest special generation saved to even this last dispensation which is the precursor to the Second Coming of even Jesus Christ himself.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:48 am
by Corsair
Blashyrkh wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:59 am
slavereeno wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:59 am
My TBM Mother assured me that all these changes are because Jesus is coming, like really soon guys.
That was the consensus during ftm at church two weeks ago. The bishop started crying about how the wheat and tares are being separated now. My lovely wife just looked at me and rolled her eyes. She is coming along well.
You guys are lucky. F&T meeting in my ward was a string of adult women talking about their great experience reading the Book of Mormon yet again by the end of 2018. I spent the time practicing mindfulness and trying not to roll my eyes to hard.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:30 pm
by Not Buying It
Anon70 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:31 am
Blashyrkh wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:59 am
slavereeno wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:59 am
My TBM Mother assured me that all these changes are because Jesus is coming, like really soon guys.
That was the consensus during ftm at church two weeks ago. The bishop started crying about how the wheat and tares are being separated now. My lovely wife just looked at me and rolled her eyes. She is coming along well.
Can confirm this is the belief in my neck of outer darkness as well. In two meetings this week, lots of tears were shed at how we need to protect our youth because Satan is working harder than ever because they’re the mostest special generation saved to even this last dispensation which is the precursor to the Second Coming of even Jesus Christ himself.
My generation was the chosen generation, damn it! We were freakin' Saturday's Warriors! We were the ones where someday in the Celestial Kingdom those around us would hush and fall on their knees overwhelmed with awe to be in the presence of someone who was on Earth during the time of President Ezra Taft Benson.

These young upstarts are not stealing the "chosen generation" moniker from me. No way! Just try and take it, you little punks. Young presumptuous whippersnappers.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:46 pm
by slavereeno
Not Buying It wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:30 pm
My generation was the chosen generation, damn it! We were freakin' Saturday's Warriors! We were the ones where someday in the Celestial Kingdom those around us would hush and fall on their knees overwhelmed with awe to be in the presence of someone who was on Earth during the time of President Ezra Taft Benson.
Yes! I remember that BS too! Now all my generation is talking about how its going to be our kids' generation. How much you wanna bet our kids will be thinkin' its going to be their kids generation, and so forth and so on.

Re: The changing face of LDS INC under RMN...why the rush?

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:04 pm
by jfro18
slavereeno wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:46 pm
Yes! I remember that BS too! Now all my generation is talking about how its going to be our kids' generation. How much you wanna bet our kids will be thinkin' its going to be their kids generation, and so forth and so on.
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