7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

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deacon blues
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7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by deacon blues » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:07 pm

This was quoted in the Salt Lke Trib.

“There are now 220 stakes and 47 districts in Mexico,” ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com reports. “There has been a net decrease of 139 congregations (7 percent annual decrease) in Mexico thus far in 2018 — the largest decrease in the number of wards/branches ever reported by the church in Mexico, and the largest annual decrease in the number of wards/branches ever reported in a single country in the history of the church.”

Is this the Church trying to do a "Soft presentation" of the membership hemorrhage after years of inflated statistics? A 7% decrease in one year?

Is it time for the Church to get realistic about it's membership numbers?
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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no1saint
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by no1saint » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:11 pm

That’s epic. No wonder they won’t present membership numbers at GC anymore. No matter how you spin it, those figures are not rosey.

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wtfluff
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by wtfluff » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:28 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:07 pm
Is it time for the Church to get realistic about it's membership numbers?
How did Ballard put it? "We’re as transparent as we know how to be in telling the truth." (They seem to be incapable of telling the truth.)

So they'd likely say: "We're as realistic as we know how to be with membership statistics." Which means: Not realistic at all.

It's pretty obvious why they stopped reading the "statistics" in conference: When you do actually look at it realistically, it doesn't look good.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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oliblish
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by oliblish » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:33 pm

According to fuller consideration.com, there was an increase of only 22 units worldwide for 2018. I am waiting for the official numbers but that is the lowest number in many decades if accurate.

I believe the Mexico situation had a lot to do with this. 2017 saw an increase of 202.


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Palerider
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by Palerider » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:38 pm

As stated in the Faith Crisis Report referenced on another thread, the church "vastly" under reports or under estimates the number of members leaving the church. To quote:

"The majority of those who completely disengage from the Church do
not submit resignation letters. Many view this as an unnecessary offense
to believing family members and friends. Some do not wish to invest
the time in the multi-step process. Some do not wish to recognize the
Church’s authority by submitting a resignation letter. And perhaps some
wish to “hedge their bets” by remaining on the Church rolls.
Measuring the severity of Faith Crisis by simply tracking numbers of
resignations creates a false impression there is no formidable challenge
and causes many to deny the severity of the issue. It will not serve us well
if we have “Faith Crisis deniers” in the same way we now have climate
change deniers."

Heads in the sand.....and that was in 2013... :oops:
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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1smartdodog
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by 1smartdodog » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:54 am

Perhaps the demise of a worldwide Mormon church is occurring sooner than expected. Organized religion in general is on the decline. Throw in the fundamentalist nature of Mormonism and those choosing to escape may be at an even greater pace.

Perhaps soon it will be back to a localized religion for the die hard. Of course with all those investments it will be a fabulously wealthy little church
“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison

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Hagoth
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by Hagoth » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:16 pm

I wonder if there is a correlation with the fact that we can't figure out who the Lamanites are anymore and people in Mexico are beginning to realize the BoM isn't really talking about their ancestors.

If news gets out to the average member that the church is faltering be prepared to hear a lot more talk from The Brethren about signs of the times and Satan's power to lead people astray.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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nibbler
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by nibbler » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:27 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:07 pm
Is it time for the Church to get realistic about it's membership numbers?
SM attendance is a number every unit submits in a quarterly report. Someone has their finger right on the pulse of the trends in actual membership.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

Thoughtful
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by Thoughtful » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:25 pm

I'd like nothing more than to watch a few people's faces as the church actually implodes.

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deacon blues
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by deacon blues » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:34 pm

I wonder how LDS in Mexico or Peru view Rodney Meldrum’s Eastern USA limited geography hypothesis?
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by Rob4Hope » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:13 am

Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:25 pm
I'd like nothing more than to watch a few people's faces as the church actually implodes.
Ditto

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jfro18
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by jfro18 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:46 am

Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:25 pm
I'd like nothing more than to watch a few people's faces as the church actually implodes.
Someday if this happens, we'll need to photoshop the famous "Hitler" video that everyone uses for big events with whoever the prophet is at the time screaming at the church to fix the info getting out there and stop the implosion.

I just don't think it'll ever happen... I mean they'll slowly bleed out for a very long time, but I just don't see a complete implosion barring some insane scandal that came out like the Catholic church, but even then it would probably not blow it all up since the core of the church would just blame imperfect men.

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Palerider
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by Palerider » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:14 pm

I'm betting Uchtdorf chucks his prepared speech next conference, goes off script and announces that he is withdrawing from the council of the twelve because of incontrovertible problems with church foundational stories.

Satellite feed is cut to the rest of the world but not before Elder Holland is seen stumbling over Eyring who is also making an awkward move to tackle Uchtdorf at the podium.

President Nelson suddenly clutches his chest, slumps to the floor and is immediately started on artificial respiration by Oaks who simultaneously trips Bednar who is running to the mic to begin bearing his testimony with a large pickle in his hand.

Armed security guards appear from nowhere and pull fully automatic weapons from their specially designed garments, one of which snags on his trigger and trips a five round burst that sends the entire congregation, who to this point have been awestruck with gaping mouths....into pandemonium.

Another bodyguard thinking that Pres. Nelson is under attack, returns fire at the first bodyguard thinking he must be a conspiratorial traitor. Bedlam is exponentially increased.

Women shriek while men throw themselves over them as protection. Others stampede for the exits trampling the elderly and disabled.

As if on cue the MoTab stands in unison and begins to sing "Master the Tempest is Raging" while Elder Ballard stands and cries out, "Stay in the boat, stay in the boat!!!"

The cool, calm demeanor that Mormon audiences and congregations are known to exhibit in emergency situations is nowhere to be found....

Two days later the church news room and Deseret News run a story stating that during conference, President Nelson suffered a mild case of indigestion, which momentarily brought the conference meeting to a pause. He was tenderly assisted by Elder Oaks and Elder Holland who escorted him to where he could be attended to by his physician. He continued to watch the remainder of conference on closed circuit television as Pres. Eyring presided. The rest of conference continued uninterrupted and was deemed by leadership to be a great and inspirational success. A surprise announcement was also made regarding Pres. Uchtdorf being given general authority emeritus status after suffering a severe and unanticipated brain stroke. Members of the church are exhorted to remember him in their prayers.

;)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Rob4Hope
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by Rob4Hope » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:08 pm

Palerider wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:14 pm
I'm betting Uchtdorf chucks his prepared speech next conference, goes off script and announces that he is withdrawing from the council of the twelve because of incontrovertible problems with church foundational stories.

Satellite feed is cut to the rest of the world but not before Elder Holland is seen stumbling over Eyring who is also making an awkward move to tackle Uchtdorf at the podium.

President Nelson suddenly clutches his chest, slumps to the floor and is immediately started on artificial respiration by Oaks who simultaneously trips Bednar who is running to the mic to begin bearing his testimony with a large pickle in his hand.

Armed security guards appear from nowhere and pull fully automatic weapons from their specially designed garments, one of which snags on his trigger and trips a five round burst that sends the entire congregation, who to this point have been awestruck with gaping mouths....into pandemonium.

Another bodyguard thinking that Pres. Nelson is under attack, returns fire at the first bodyguard thinking he must be a conspiratorial traitor. Bedlam is exponentially increased.

Women shriek while men throw themselves over them as protection. Others stampede for the exits trampling the elderly and disabled.

As if on cue the MoTab stands in unison and begins to sing "Master the Tempest is Raging" while Elder Ballard stands and cries out, "Stay in the boat, stay in the boat!!!"

The cool, calm demeanor that Mormon audiences and congregations are known to exhibit in emergency situations is nowhere to be found....

Two days later the church news room and Deseret News run a story stating that during conference, President Nelson suffered a mild case of indigestion, which momentarily brought the conference meeting to a pause. He was tenderly assisted by Elder Oaks and Elder Holland who escorted him to where he could be attended to by his physician. He continued to watch the remainder of conference on closed circuit television as Pres. Eyring presided. The rest of conference continued uninterrupted and was deemed by leadership to be a great and inspirational success. A surprise announcement was also made regarding Pres. Uchtdorf being given general authority emeritus status after suffering a severe and unanticipated brain stroke. Members of the church are exhorted to remember him in their prayers.

;)
Dude!....you weave some of the most entertaining crap ever! And I mean that as a compliment!!!

Anon70
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by Anon70 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:33 pm

Palerider wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:14 pm
I'm betting Uchtdorf chucks his prepared speech next conference, goes off script and announces that he is withdrawing from the council of the twelve because of incontrovertible problems with church foundational stories.

Satellite feed is cut to the rest of the world but not before Elder Holland is seen stumbling over Eyring who is also making an awkward move to tackle Uchtdorf at the podium.

President Nelson suddenly clutches his chest, slumps to the floor and is immediately started on artificial respiration by Oaks who simultaneously trips Bednar who is running to the mic to begin bearing his testimony with a large pickle in his hand.

Armed security guards appear from nowhere and pull fully automatic weapons from their specially designed garments, one of which snags on his trigger and trips a five round burst that sends the entire congregation, who to this point have been awestruck with gaping mouths....into pandemonium.

Another bodyguard thinking that Pres. Nelson is under attack, returns fire at the first bodyguard thinking he must be a conspiratorial traitor. Bedlam is exponentially increased.

Women shriek while men throw themselves over them as protection. Others stampede for the exits trampling the elderly and disabled.

As if on cue the MoTab stands in unison and begins to sing "Master the Tempest is Raging" while Elder Ballard stands and cries out, "Stay in the boat, stay in the boat!!!"

The cool, calm demeanor that Mormon audiences and congregations are known to exhibit in emergency situations is nowhere to be found....

Two days later the church news room and Deseret News run a story stating that during conference, President Nelson suffered a mild case of indigestion, which momentarily brought the conference meeting to a pause. He was tenderly assisted by Elder Oaks and Elder Holland who escorted him to where he could be attended to by his physician. He continued to watch the remainder of conference on closed circuit television as Pres. Eyring presided. The rest of conference continued uninterrupted and was deemed by leadership to be a great and inspirational success. A surprise announcement was also made regarding Pres. Uchtdorf being given general authority emeritus status after suffering a severe and unanticipated brain stroke. Members of the church are exhorted to remember him in their prayers.

;)

Too funny and that last paragraph a little too accurate. I squirmed a little cause as an active member I probably would have shrugged and accepted that 😬

Reuben
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by Reuben » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:49 pm

Palerider, you disturb me.

You're channeling Red Ryder, and he's not even dead yet.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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GoodBoy
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by GoodBoy » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:08 pm

Palerider wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:14 pm
;)
Palerider... I salute you.

Oh... and my understanding is that the average congregation size was also decreasing, at least in some areas.

In other news, one more sister joined me in apostasy. Yay for not being so alone!
Always been the good kid, but I wanted to know more, and to find and test truth.

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Red Ryder
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:51 pm

Palerider wrote:Armed security guards appear from nowhere and pull fully automatic weapons from their specially designed garments, one of which snags on his trigger and trips a five round burst that sends the entire congregation, who to this point have been awestruck with gaping mouths....into pandemonium.
Specially designed garments...

Ha ha ha! That's hilarious! Well done cuz!
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Palerider
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by Palerider » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:53 pm

Reuben wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:49 pm
Palerider, you disturb me.

You're channeling Red Ryder, and he's not even dead yet.
Hey....we try to keep the gratuitous stuff at bay.... ;)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Palerider
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Re: 7% decrease in Mexico's congregations

Post by Palerider » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:55 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:51 pm
Palerider wrote:Armed security guards appear from nowhere and pull fully automatic weapons from their specially designed garments, one of which snags on his trigger and trips a five round burst that sends the entire congregation, who to this point have been awestruck with gaping mouths....into pandemonium.
Specially designed garments...

Ha ha ha! That's hilarious! Well done cuz!
Pockets where you'd least suspect. ;)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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