I think..... or I obey?

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
Post Reply
User avatar
deacon blues
Posts: 1053
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:37 am

I think..... or I obey?

Post by deacon blues » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:41 am

I think therefore I am.- Descartes

I obey therefore I.......

I obey therefor I am useful.- Deacon
God is Love. God is Truth

User avatar
Just This Guy
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: Almost Heaven

Re: I think..... or I obey?

Post by Just This Guy » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:28 am

Shounds like something Out of Thomas the Tank Engine.

I think, therefore I am a really useful engine.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 2483
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: I think..... or I obey?

Post by Corsair » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:29 am

I think therefore I obey:
Cogito ergo oboedieritis

I think or I obey:
Nec puto sententiae

I do not speak Latin, but this is a dramatic change of grammar between the two phrases. Also:

Cogito ergo sum ego bibendum
I drink, therefore I am

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 2072
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: I think..... or I obey?

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:16 pm

I eat, therefore I excrete!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
Random
Posts: 664
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:44 pm

Re: I think..... or I obey?

Post by Random » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:21 am

I think therefore I am.- Descartes

I obey therefore I am
brainwashed?

Okay, maybe that doesn't fit every situation, but I think I obeyed because I was convinced that if I didn't, I'd go to hell.
[They] which knew me from the beginning . . . would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Acts 26:5

Reuben
Posts: 935
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: I think..... or I obey?

Post by Reuben » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:53 am

At work, I think, therefore I am useful. I obey some things, none of which curtail my thinking, and some of which are designed to encourage it. But if I thought women should stay home or LGBT people should stay quiet, I might feel like I'm obeying certain rules in order to be useful to people I disagree with.

I think it's important to remember that most believing Mormons haven't gone through a major change in beliefs that makes obedience seem oppressive or dehumanizing. Their actions on behalf of the church tend to be aligned with their thinking, and most feel like they're serving God.

FWIW, I like the fuller version of Descarte's principle by Thomas, but I'll expand it again: "I doubt [my existence], therefore I think, therefore I am."

Maybe there's a version of Deacon's principle for the nuanced believer: "I doubt [my beliefs], therefore I have faith, therefore I am useful [to God]."
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 2330
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: I think..... or I obey?

Post by moksha » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:26 am

Trying to work through an LDS message I have heard: Obedience is the first principle of the Gospel.

Obedience is the first principle of the Gospel.
Obedience is the first principle of slavery.
Therefore, the Gospel is slavery.

Wonder what Socrates would say about LDS messages?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
deacon blues
Posts: 1053
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:37 am

Re: I think..... or I obey?

Post by deacon blues » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:59 pm

The church needs a few people like Socrates to bring it back to reality. Sadly, people like Socrates sometimes get executed.The Church has the power to exclude and excommunicate, but (Thank God) not the power to execute those it judges. Unlike the Catholic Church, the LDS Church has not had that kind of power. There might have been some times in Church history where it seems apparent that Church leaders would have executed people if they could, but our apologist friends tells us that was just metaphor. ;)
God is Love. God is Truth

Mackman
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:03 am

Re: I think..... or I obey?

Post by Mackman » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:16 am

I think we all need to go out for a cup of coffee.

User avatar
Rob4Hope
Posts: 1185
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:43 pm
Location: Salt Lake City -- the Motherland!!

Re: I think..... or I obey?

Post by Rob4Hope » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:02 am

deacon blues wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:59 pm
The church needs a few people like Socrates to bring it back to reality. Sadly, people like Socrates sometimes get executed.The Church has the power to exclude and excommunicate, but (Thank God) not the power to execute those it judges. Unlike the Catholic Church, the LDS Church has not had that kind of power. There might have been some times in Church history where it seems apparent that Church leaders would have executed people if they could, but our apologist friends tells us that was just metaphor. ;)
Wife No 19 & Brigham's Destroying Angel books.

Deacon, I know you were talking tongue and cheek (a little...), but truth is, the LDS church leadership DID have the power to kill. And they used it. I'm sure you already know that, but for those who may read this thread, I posted those 2 book names. Read them...they are both VERY interesting...

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: I think..... or I obey?

Post by wtfluff » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:21 am

Mackman wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:16 am
I think we all need to go out for a cup of coffee.
Just one cup, right???

Image
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

User avatar
MerrieMiss
Posts: 544
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:03 pm

Re: I think..... or I obey?

Post by MerrieMiss » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:28 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:28 am
Shounds like something Out of Thomas the Tank Engine.

I think, therefore I am a really useful engine.
Yes. This is still making me laugh a couple hours after reading it. It might help I'm hearing it in Ringo Starr's voice.
The true opposite of order is not disorder but freedom. Most profoundly, the true opposite of control is not chaos but self-control. -Jay Griffiths

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests