Reddit post- Something I never noticed

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crossmyheart
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Reddit post- Something I never noticed

Post by crossmyheart » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:01 pm

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... testimony/

This is so plain and simple- how did I not even think of this. Why on earth would someone's personal journals and recordings leave behind a challenge to pray to know it is all true?

No other explanation than it is simply made up by a 19th century con-man.

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jfro18
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Re: Reddit post- Something I never noticed

Post by jfro18 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:17 pm

I'm replying fast here so i apologize if this is a bit jumbled, but I think the apologist answer would be that Moroni tossed that in after the abridgement and whatnot...

I mean it's really obvious once you can see it, but I can see that being waved away by a believing member pretty easily. It's also the excuse when people say it feels like it's written by the same person even though it's a ton of different authors... because it was all magically abridged in one voice.

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Palerider
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Re: Reddit post- Something I never noticed

Post by Palerider » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:45 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:17 pm
I'm replying fast here so i apologize if this is a bit jumbled, but I think the apologist answer would be that Moroni tossed that in after the abridgement and whatnot...

I mean it's really obvious once you can see it, but I can see that being waved away by a believing member pretty easily. It's also the excuse when people say it feels like it's written by the same person even though it's a ton of different authors... because it was all magically abridged in one voice.
Yep, and what's even more magical is that "voice" continues right into the D&C, Pearl of GP, etc., and you can even hear it in Joseph Smith's personal writings.

It's the voice of a MAN.....
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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slavereeno
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Re: Reddit post- Something I never noticed

Post by slavereeno » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:49 pm

crossmyheart wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:01 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... testimony/

This is so plain and simple- how did I not even think of this. Why on earth would someone's personal journals and recordings leave behind a challenge to pray to know it is all true?

No other explanation than it is simply made up by a 19th century con-man.
Haha, I am glad I don't have to make apologist excuses anymore, this is a good point and is easily answered by the "Joseph Smith borrowed it from someone else or made it up" proposition.

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Hagoth
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Re: Reddit post- Something I never noticed

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:36 pm

All I get from that link is "service unavailable." Maybe the avenging angel has been unloosed on Reddit.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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jfro18
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Re: Reddit post- Something I never noticed

Post by jfro18 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:55 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:36 pm
All I get from that link is "service unavailable." Maybe the avenging angel has been unloosed on Reddit.
Weird - I get that now too. Here's the post:
The passages in Moroni where he asks the reader to pray with real intent about the truthfulness of BoM have always baffled me. To my knowledge there are no historical documents that feel the need to support their claims like this - and why would they? You don’t find old testament writers saying that you can pray for confirmation of the exodus from egypt or the existence of david or any of it.

If the events of BoM were accurate, then Moroni wouldn’t feel the need to state the obvious, because of course his people existed and did the things he said they did. Even if Moroni did want to justify himself, why not say dig here to find the horses or something? The much more likely conclusion is that the writer of BoM had no direct knowledge of ancient america... because he lived in the 19th century

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wtfluff
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Re: Reddit post- Something I never noticed

Post by wtfluff » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:12 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:36 pm
All I get from that link is "service unavailable." Maybe the avenging angel has been unloosed on Reddit.
Just Reddit having some issues. Keep trying if you're really interested...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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Hagoth
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Re: Reddit post- Something I never noticed

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:37 pm

Joseph Smith's scripture is full of instances where it insists it really, really is real, that it was written by an ancient person in his own hand, that you should overlook the mistakes, that it's hard writing on gold plates, or that the authors could do a much better job if they were allowed to write in their own language. And they usually slip something in there about some future prophet named Joseph (at least the BoM and JST do).
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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slavereeno
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Re: Reddit post- Something I never noticed

Post by slavereeno » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:18 am

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:37 pm
Joseph Smith's scripture is full of instances where it insists it really, really is real, that it was written by an ancient person in his own hand, that you should overlook the mistakes, that it's hard writing on gold plates, or that the authors could do a much better job if they were allowed to write in their own language. And they usually slip something in there about some future prophet named Joseph (at least the BoM and JST do).
"The 'ancient prophet' doth protest too much, methinks"

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Just This Guy
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Re: Reddit post- Something I never noticed

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:46 am

The apologist would respond with something like this:

The BOM was never someone's journal. it was a deliberate abridgement of various documents for a future reader. Moroni was had ended his abridgement work and was filling in the remaining details from his lifetime to complete the record. Because he knew that future people would read it, he put in the promise to read and pray.

I would not consider this a smoking gun, and even as an argument, it is weak at best. There are much better proofs of it being made up elsewhere.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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