Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

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2bizE
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Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by 2bizE » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:35 am

Freemasonry was a catalyst for revelation on the endowment is the latest example of the catalyst theory. This theory seems to be the new answer for everything Joseph Smith nowadays.
This is the new essay on masons and Mormons.
You can link to the actual essay within this article.

http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Address ... le/s/90214
~2bizE

Reuben
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Re: Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by Reuben » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:59 am

Is there a way to falsify a catalyst theory? Or is being incredulous the best we can do?
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:00 am

The Copycat theory makes more sense to me.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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slavereeno
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Re: Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by slavereeno » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:13 pm

I think this is the most disturbing aspect of modern Mormonism. The truckloads of inoculation being done, I am the only one really out and I get very very anxious as the church finds ways to smooth this crap over. That my wife and kids are going to be OK with everything because there is some nebulous apologetic answer that will satiate their cog dis. I will end up being alone and forced to wear garments against my will for the rest of my life.

:cry:

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Hagoth
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Re: Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by Hagoth » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:01 pm

Reuben wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:59 am
Is there a way to falsify a catalyst theory? Or is being incredulous the best we can do?
The beauty of the catalyst theory is that it is indistinguishable from intentional fraud.

So was Adam Clarke's Bible commentary a catalyst for the JST? It looks like straight-forward plagiarism but I bet we'll see it fall under the catalyst umbrella too. By that point if a Solomon Spaulding version of the Book of Mormon was dropped in our laps that too would be a catalyst. I wonder what my professor will say if I just hand in a copy of someone else's research paper and use the catalyst theory excuse.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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jfro18
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Re: Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by jfro18 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:58 pm

I posted a list of areas where Joseph clearly stole ideas on another thread and how that is now basically thought of as "catalyst for revelation" if you have that conversation.

There's a great BYU studies paper where they discuss how Joseph Smith basically stole the concepts of the multiple tiers of Heaven from Sedenborg. Look at this conclusion: "Believing Latter-day Saints might answer that question with an explanation that parallels Joseph Smith’s reported statement to Edward Hunter: it is possible that Swedenborg saw the heavens. Latter-day Saints readily accept that individuals outside their tradition have been given special, revealed insight into heavenly truths, and thus the points of convergence in Swedenborgianism and Mormonism could reflect accurate, though independent, descriptions of true Christian eschatology. Latter-day Saints could accept that, to a remarkable degree, Emanuel Swedenborg and Joseph Smith both experienced actual visions of the afterlife reality."

So not only is Joseph Smith taking a "catalyst" from others when he steals their work/ideas/whatever, the church is now sometimes even saying these people he stole from were inspired because they *have* to be inspired for Joseph to steal their ideas, right?

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græy
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Re: Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by græy » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:04 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:13 pm
I think this is the most disturbing aspect of modern Mormonism. The truckloads of inoculation being done, I am the only one really out and I get very very anxious as the church finds ways to smooth this crap over. That my wife and kids are going to be OK with everything because there is some nebulous apologetic answer that will satiate their cog dis. I will end up being alone and forced to wear garments against my will for the rest of my life.

:cry:
I'm with you on this.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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jfro18
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Re: Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by jfro18 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:08 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:13 pm
I think this is the most disturbing aspect of modern Mormonism. The truckloads of inoculation being done, I am the only one really out and I get very very anxious as the church finds ways to smooth this crap over. That my wife and kids are going to be OK with everything because there is some nebulous apologetic answer that will satiate their cog dis. I will end up being alone and forced to wear garments against my will for the rest of my life.

:cry:
This is really true. When everything happened with me last spring, I talked with someone really involved in post-Mormonism and was telling them how my wife wouldn't read what I was reading but was reading FAIR and Givens/Mason type stuff.

He was like "Oh that'll do more to harm her testimony than you think, but it takes time." And almost a year later she is as retrenched as ever and now reading the most insane apologetics along with these LDS drips to keep her from looking and deeper.

It's such a powerless feeling to have all the info and the other person not only refuses to talk about it, but will eat up anything the other side tosses out without question. But such is Mormonism.

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slavereeno
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Re: Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by slavereeno » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:13 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:08 pm
It's such a powerless feeling to have all the info and the other person not only refuses to talk about it, but will eat up anything the other side tosses out without question. But such is Mormonism.
The people around me that I would like to turn to for support, don't want to hear anything negative about the church. I get so frustrated with the feeling of being silenced and quarantined, so I come here and exMormon subreddit and youtube and obsess over Mormonism. I know it can't be healthy in the long term, but its the way I am coping with the sense of powerlessness.

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jfro18
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Re: Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by jfro18 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:18 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:13 pm
The people around me that I would like to turn to for support, don't want to hear anything negative about the church. I get so frustrated with the feeling of being silenced and quarantined, so I come here and exMormon subreddit and youtube and obsess over Mormonism. I know it can't be healthy in the long term, but its the way I am coping with the sense of powerlessness.
I think that sums it up pretty good. Sometimes I'll read a story about a church thing (or the recent essays) and I just want to talk with my wife about them because you can see how dishonest it is, but if I talk to her then I know I'm in for a few days of awkwardness and anger.

So instead I read up here, listen to podcasts, and sometimes look at reddit (I try to avoid reddit as it is a lot more angry than here lol) because even though it's not really helping my situation it's easier to vent that way than it would be to talk to her about it.

But again, that's the culture created through this church... and until the day comes when she's ready to dive in, all I will accomplish by bringing this stuff up is making her even more retrenched.

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MalcolmVillager
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Re: Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by MalcolmVillager » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:21 pm

Line upon line, precept upon precept. Othe religions and people have parts of.the truth, but only the COJCOLDS has the fullness of the gospel.

My @$$!

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Hagoth
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Re: Catalyst Theory Strikes Again

Post by Hagoth » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:03 am

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:58 pm
So not only is Joseph Smith taking a "catalyst" from others when he steals their work/ideas/whatever, the church is now sometimes even saying these people he stole from were inspired because they *have* to be inspired for Joseph to steal their ideas, right?
That will likely be the best response to the Adam Clarke plagiarism. Clarke was inspired to provide a tool to facilitate Joseph's inspired translation. Not a problem, but further proof that Joseph was a prophet and that God was preparing a path for him.

The thing is, as many of us can attest from personal experience, you can make yourself believe the most horrifically convoluted and impractical feats of apologetics if it pulls you back a few inches from teetering on the brink of the cognitive dissonance chasm.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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