Dan Vogel and John Hamer on MS

[Hagoth]

John Dehlin has uploaded 6 more episodes of Dan Vogel interview, along with the previous 8 episodes and 3 from John Hamer. This is great stuff, folks. It has really been great commute listening for me. These guys have really got their act together. Anybody else listening?

[Culper Jr.]

Yes, this is some fantastic stuff. I really like the way both of these guys are very fair and not itching to jump on any sensational theory that would make the church look bad. I listened to all of the Dan Vogel stuff today at work; he really gives some great insight into the chiasmus claims, the magic worldview surrounding the BOM "witnesses" and what their statements actually were and also JS's possible motivations for writing the BOM. I am reading a Bart Ehrman book titled "Forged" about the New Testament books that are forgeries and other early Christian texts that are forged, and the mindset and possible motivations of the forgers. Ehrman's conclusions about early Christian forgers mesh well with Vogel's thought's on why JS forged the BOM and Mormon theology in general.

[jfro18]

Both are amazing - I am hoping that Hamer does more since his MS eps were a while back.

And as Culper Jr said, I love how Vogel and Hamer will push back on questions that Dehlin asks that are either leading or just not a fair criticism/speculation. I think that's a great sign of wanting to get it right instead of just wanting to pile on Joseph Smith/Mormonism when they can take a step back and say that a theory just isn't credible or worth adopting because the evidence doesn't add up. Dan does great with this when talking about if Emma was in on the fraud and the plagiarism claims about books like View of the Hebrews.

I still need to catch up on the last 2 hours I think of Vogel - maybe tomorrow I can do that while packing up some stuff... took the week off podcasts for the most part but really want to finish the most recent Vogel eps.

[MalcolmVillager]

I am loving DV as well. Nearly done now and will start JH next. These guys are both so honest about the facts and at the same time generous about the humanity of religion.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Hamer's cultural context presentation was fantastic.

[John G.]

I find Dan Vogel hard to listen to. Is it just me?

[Culper Jr.]

I find Dan Vogel hard to listen to. Is it just me?

Yeah, a little bit. I think it comes from where John asks questions wanting brief concise answers, and Dan likes to really frame his answers in the proper context with all of the caveats and nuance so that he is not misunderstood or unfair. My appreciation for that and interest in all of the background overrides any annoyance from the long pauses and meandering. In the last set of interviews I think they were Skyping, and John would ask a question and Dan would pause to really frame the question, and I think maybe John thought Dan didn't hear him or something and re-frame the question... I thought it flowed better when John was there in Ohio earlier. It was easier to listen to when Dan would just go on versus when there was a lot of back and forth.

The John Hamer ones though, that dude was on point. He was very well spoken and prepared; I could listen to him all day.