Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

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consiglieri
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Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by consiglieri » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:18 pm

Just wanted to make sure you were aware part 3 went up last Sunday.

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/201 ... cs-part-3/

I think it is pretty good!

But then, I'm biased . . .

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:38 pm

I enjoyed it! Good job explaining in simple terms the hoopla around the dating of certain chapters for the BOA and why that matters to the apologetics. Also enjoyed the feedback from Brian Hauglid.

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John G.
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by John G. » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:46 pm

Very interesting! I also really like the RFM podcasts where you guys analyze recent GA talks! They make for devastating cross-exams!
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moksha
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by moksha » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:12 pm

I listened to the podcast through a link on Mormon Discussions. Most likely it sounds better from a link on this board. Consiglieri and Bill Reel have such well-researched findings that I am in awe of the Radio Free podcasts.

There is an interesting thread on that other board about this podcast. It is really interesting to read what another poster named Shulem has added to the topic. I remember when he was an extremely ardent defender of the Book of Abraham about fifteen years ago on the old Beliefnet board. Bet he holds the world record for the most Book of Abraham posts on multiple message boards.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Hagoth
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by Hagoth » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:54 am

I'm in mid-listen.

I'm confused about something. At about the 30 minute mark Bill discusses asking Hauglid about his comment on Vogel's Facebook page. At this point I get an Emergency Broadcast System announcement. I'm assuming this was intentionally added to cover up some of the discussion (I don't think the Emergency Broadcast System applies to podcasts) for some reason. Why not just edit it out, rather than covering it up?

Did others hear the same thing when they listened?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:57 am

Hagoth wrote:I'm in mid-listen.

I'm confused about something. At about the 30 minute mark Bill discusses asking Hauglid about his comment on Vogel's Facebook page. At this point I get an Emergency Broadcast System announcement. I'm assuming this was intentionally added to cover up some of the discussion (I don't think the Emergency Broadcast System applies to podcasts) for some reason. Why not just edit it out, rather than covering it up?

Did others hear the same thing when they listened?
Yes I also noticed the emergency broadcast message and was totally confused by it.

consiglieri
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by consiglieri » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:41 pm

Sorry about the confusion regarding the emergency broadcast message.

Bill added a lot of audio clips like this one after the recording was complete.

Most are more self-explanatory than this one.

I think it was meant to indicate we were going to be talking about something secretive and potentially explosive, such as Brian Hauglid's stance on the BOA or something.

I can assure you, however, that whatever it meant, it was not used to cover up something else that we were talking about behind the scenes while it was playing.

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Hagoth
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by Hagoth » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:49 pm

consiglieri wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:41 pm

I think it was meant to indicate we were going to be talking about something secretive and potentially explosive, such as Brian Hauglid's stance on the BOA or something.
Can we look forward to some revelation of what that might be?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

consiglieri
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by consiglieri » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:25 pm

I think Brian is keeping his cards close to his vest at this point.

He seems to have felt duty bound to come out and disavow his apologetic position on the Book of Abraham from 2010 in response to quotes from his writings from that time being used in the recent Dan Vogel videos.

Brian went even further to distance himself from John Gee and Kerry Muhlestein by calling their BOA apologetics "abhorrent."

Other than that, Brian is keeping quiet about where he stands on the faith question of the BOA.

He may have moved to the catalyst theory, or to something even less faith promoting.

The fact he is not being explicit about landing on the catalyst theory or some other faithful reading of the BOA makes me tend to think Brian may have lost faith in the BOA being inspired in any meaningful way.

Perhaps we will find out more after he retires from BYU.

consiglieri
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by consiglieri » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:27 pm

And seriously, I am not being coy here.

I don't know what Brian is thinking other than what he has explicitly stated.

To my knowledge, Bill Reel doesn't have any inside scoop on this either.

At any rate, the emergency warning audio did not cover anything we were talking about behind the scenes.

Bill and I often say things we don't want to be heard by the public, and we just edit them out completely.

Frequently we have to edit out a blue streak or two from yours truly.

There is no need to use some other audio to cover it up.

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Just This Guy
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by Just This Guy » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:12 pm

I took it to be a oddly humorous way of showing that he is hard to figure out. I think the reason it was so jarring (other than it was a EAS test) is that we are not used to having IOT style humorous sound clips edited in to RFM or Bill Reel's podcasts in general. We are used to what is edited in being stuff that directly relates to the topic at hand. It always either source materiel or supporting evidence.

It does take some getting used to to having the sound clips in there. That being said, I cracked up when you played the Retroencabulator clip. I like to play around with my Allen Bradly sales reps with that clip every once in a while.
Last edited by Just This Guy on Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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moksha
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by moksha » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:48 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:12 pm
That being said, I cracked up when you played the Retroencabulator clip.
Oh yeah, I remember that - from Mormon Scientists Testify: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJKdh1KZ0w
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by Hagoth » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:55 am

consiglieri wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:27 pm
There is no need to use some other audio to cover it up.
Consiglieri, I didn't mean to imply that you were hiding something. That's why I pointed out that it would be much easier to clip it out. I was just wondering if the Emergency Broadcast warning was supposed to alert me to something that went over my head, or if maybe it was a teaser for something more to come.

This was a great podcast and I'm really impressed that Bill and Brian had some dialog that you guys were able to share with us.

Thanks so much for doing this.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: Book of Abraham, Part 3 Podcast

Post by Hagoth » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:36 am

I finally listened to the last few minutes. I think this was the best of the three BoA episodes. Consiglieri did some excellent research for this.

It helped me process some things about Muhlstein and Gee. I really have a hard time comprehending why two obviously very intelligent men would be intentionally dishonest and manipulative in supporting religious constructs that are supposedly built upon a foundation of truth and honesty. My brain has difficulty going there. Why in the world would you do this? I realize it comes down to two things:

1) Church broke (dishonesty on behalf of the church is superior to "covenant breaking" even if it requires lowering your personal and academic standards).

2) Big fish in a small pond. These guys have become Big Important Dudes in the view of a very narrow audience, with special regard for pleasing the High Sheriffs. If they had to leave the warm, comfy blanket of church employment they would be lucky to find jobs teaching kindergarten or curating a bottle cap museum. They have seen what happens to those who don't bow down humbly enough to the COB and their best survival option is to take their orders and run with them as enthusiastically as possible.

A lady in my ward actually bears her testimony about Muhlstein as a brilliant, inspired scholar with the vision to see through the deceptive fog that clouds the minds of everyone else in his field (my rephrasing). Why risk leaving that for the harsh reality of the lone and dreary world?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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